CougarCorner

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-23T20:32:03-06:00

Some YUGE leaps to conclusions in this thread. I think SMC still spanks this BYU team 7/10 times and so does UTA with or without FJ. It's a team game and this BYU team needs more help than a freshman good-great player.

Statistics: Posted by BroncoBot — Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-22T10:04:39-06:00

Why can Duke swoop in at the last second and take a recruit like him when he could do just as good (or better in this case this year) at BYU?

Most famous college hoops coach: "Want to be a national name in college and then go to the NBA?"

The coach no one knows of outside of the WCC: "Ever heard of Brandon Davies?"
Then we need to change the sales pitch. Coach K has underachieved as many times as he has won a NC. There is no reason he should be able to steal Mormon recruits from BYU.
Your post gave one very compelling reason why a player would choose Duke over BYU. National Championships. Coach K has won a few. Coach Rose hasn't won a CONFERENCE tournament. From a basketball standpoint, there is no comparison.
So why wouldn't you want to be the guy who brought a championship to BYU?

I don't think this team was one Frank Jackson away from being a title contender. I think Frank understood that as well. Without question there is some talent on his team, but let's not overstate the LP3. We're talking about good recruits, but not McDonald's All Americans.

At Duke, Jackson gets to practice against 6 other McDonald's All Americans. He plays schedule against much tougher competition. He has the opportunity to play for a coach that has won National Titles and that Coaches the Olympic team. When you aggregate these things it gives him a much better chance for his own personal development for the NBA and opportunity to win a title.

BYU certainly is a compelling option, but it isn't a top priority for most athletes unless a mission is a top priority as well (this is true for football as well.). If a mission isn't a top priority and you are an elite LDS athlete, you probably aren't choosing BYU. see Jabari Parker, Manti Teo, and any other 4 to 5 star LDS athlete not named Jake Heaps.

Statistics: Posted by mormonrasta — Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:04 am

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-22T08:46:29-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked?
It's apparently obvious from my post that I think FJ is and always has been the suckiest sucker who ever sucked until Coach K put his miracle hands on him and cried for the demons to exit. If he would have come to BYU he probably would be our backup sweat-mopper under the East hoop (not good enough to backup mop sweat in front of the ROC). Thanks for totally mischaracterizing what I said (that FJ would not necessarily be as good a player at BYU under Rose as he was at Duke under Krzyzewski) into something laughable. You defeated that straw man with gusto.

What player have we seen Dave Rose coach up to NBA standards? Jimmer Fredette? Brandon Davies? Kyle Collinsworth?

I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Coach K and Coach Rose are equals when it comes to player development, cuz I don't see a lot of it going on.
Davies even getting a couple of NBA seasons at all is well beyond what anyone could reasonably expect. The other two have major issues as far as the NBA is concerned that a different coach wouldn't have been able to fix into NBA talent. To insinuate otherwise I think is silly. There is a reason those guys weren't recruited by Duke.

I never said anything about Rose being Coach K's equal either. I just said for Duke to flop in the second round with the talent they have this year is pretty darn disappointing. It happens. It's not an exact science. Frank J would have helped BYU to be better. You can't usually add that much talent and be worse. How much, who knows. Like I said, Duke has loads of it and underachieved this year. Coach K is still a brilliant coach, but Rose isn't a failure either. I love Steve Cleveland, but Rose has been better. WAY BETTER. He was just good enough to push the expectations today beyond what they've ever been at BYU which is what allows the fans to be unhappy with a decade of NCAAs and 3 NITs. I'm old enough to remember when that would have been unheard of here. But I get it. It's human nature to always hold the bar higher. He will have to turn it around next year or he'll probably retire soon.

Statistics: Posted by BlueK — Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:46 am

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T20:35:28-06:00

Coach K starts with 5* recruits. None of the guys you mentioned were even close to that highly rated. In fact, I would dare say that the 2010 Jimmer led team that went to the sweet 16 wouldn't have had even one player on it that would have sniffed the floor for Duke. That team was a 1 seed before Davies was suspended.

Statistics: Posted by frdbtr — Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:35 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T20:13:44-06:00

When Steve Cleveland was in his last year and the pressure was getting to him he stated that it was unreasonable for BYU fans to expect to go to the NCAAs every year. Rose then did that for six years in a row, which had never happened in BYU history. If he leaves, sure, maybe it's possible they could get better, but it's far from a given. It's far more likely it would get worse and revert to historical norms here. Just my opinion. Believe me, I totally understand why fans want more. So do I. That statement from Cleveland when he made it around 2005 annoyed the crap out of me. I'm just not ready to throw Rose under the bus. A coach like Crowton was another matter. And there is a difference with Bronco. He never set any new standards. I wouldn't have fired him either, though.

Statistics: Posted by BlueK — Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T19:34:12-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked?
It's apparently obvious from my post that I think FJ is and always has been the suckiest sucker who ever sucked until Coach K put his miracle hands on him and cried for the demons to exit. If he would have come to BYU he probably would be our backup sweat-mopper under the East hoop (not good enough to backup mop sweat in front of the ROC). Thanks for totally mischaracterizing what I said (that FJ would not necessarily be as good a player at BYU under Rose as he was at Duke under Krzyzewski) into something laughable. You defeated that straw man with gusto.

What player have we seen Dave Rose coach up to NBA standards? Jimmer Fredette? Brandon Davies? Kyle Collinsworth?

I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Coach K and Coach Rose are equals when it comes to player development, cuz I don't see a lot of it going on.

Davies even getting a couple of NBA seasons at all is well beyond what anyone could reasonably expect.

I never said anything about Rose being Coach K's equal either. I just said for Duke to flop in the second round with the talent they have this year is pretty darn disappointing. It happens. It's not an exact science. Frank J would have helped BYU to be better. You can't usually add that much talent and be worse. How much, who knows. Like I said, Duke has loads of it and underachieved this year. Coach K is still a brilliant coach, but Rose isn't a failure either. I love Steve Cleveland, but Rose has been better. WAY BETTER. He was just good enough to push the expectations today beyond what they've ever been at BYU which is what allows the fans to be unhappy with a decade of NCAAs and 3 NITs. I'm old enough to remember when that would have been unheard of here. But I get it. It's human nature to always hold the bar higher. He will have to turn it around next year or he'll probably retire soon.

Statistics: Posted by BlueK — Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:34 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T16:15:22-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.
Do you really think he would have sucked?

It's apparently obvious from my post that I think FJ is and always has been the suckiest sucker who ever sucked until Coach K put his miracle hands on him and cried for the demons to exit. If he would have come to BYU he probably would be our backup sweat-mopper under the East hoop (not good enough to backup mop sweat in front of the ROC). Thanks for totally mischaracterizing what I said (that FJ would not necessarily be as good a player at BYU under Rose as he was at Duke under Krzyzewski) into something laughable. You defeated that straw man with gusto.

What player have we seen Dave Rose coach up to NBA standards? Jimmer Fredette? Brandon Davies? Kyle Collinsworth?

I'd like to know what your basis is for thinking Coach K and Coach Rose are equals when it comes to player development, cuz I don't see a lot of it going on.

Statistics: Posted by snoscythe — Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:15 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T16:06:05-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.

I actually do think that he could have been just as good here as at Duke. Who says he was "coached up"? Would Mika be a top 10 draft prospect if he had played under Coach K right now? Did you know that coach K was on the hot seat about to get fired before the Christian Laetner years? The difference between Duke and BYU right now is talent. Coach K is a good coach but I would bet that he would not thrive any better at BYU with the recruiting restrictions BYU has.

Statistics: Posted by frdbtr — Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T15:46:50-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.

Do you really think he would have sucked? Basketball is mostly about talent and then experience and then coaching, IMO. The difference probably wouldn't be that extreme. In fact, you could make a good case he gets even better numbers here because there are fewer good players.

We're going out of our way to be as negative as possible right now around here. I do understand. We had a disappointing year based on expectations. But it's funny that at Duke they're maybe even more disappointed right now about not meeting their expectations. All that talent and only one NCAA tournament win? Not good.

Statistics: Posted by BlueK — Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:46 pm

Re: Could Frankie J won an NCAA game with BYU this year?

2017-03-21T14:58:42-06:00

Some of you seem to be operating under the assumption that Frank Jackson would have been just as good at BYU as he was this year at Duke.

Do you really think Coach Rose would have been able to coach him up to the same level as Krzyzewski? If so, you're up in the night.

Statistics: Posted by snoscythe — Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:58 pm