Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby vancouvercougar » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:14 am

Ungoy wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


If the school had a player commit an illegal act, and the coaching staff and administration tried to cover up that crime so that the player could continue to play, and the school benefit from his performance, then yes, they should be sanctioned by the NCAA.

The Sandusky crimes on their own do not merit NCAA sanctions. The University cover-up that went on for 13 years does.


My sentiments exactly.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby Cougarfan87 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:21 am

hawkwing wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:
snoscythe wrote:And FWIW, if the NCAA levies any sanctions tomorrow on the basis of the Freeh report or the criminal case (as opposed the NCAA's own investigation--as required by NCAA bylaws), I hope PSU sues the hell out of the NCAA.



Totally agree. I think Penn State should thumb their nose at NCAA and keep handing out scholarships. The NCAA stepped beyond their bounds here. The NCAA is reacting to poplular opinion, just like the prosecutors in Florida in the Trayvon Martin case. It is a sad day when government and quasi government organizations feel they have to weigh in heavy just because popular opinion says so. The head coach is dead, the President fired, the actual wrong doer going to prison for the rest of his life, and the name of the school tarnished. And yet the NCAA felt that wasn't enough. So let's punish student athletes that probably cannot afford college without the Grant in Aid.

I guess those future students should be punished since the administration in the past made mistakes. Absolutely ridiculous. This is a problem with the NCAA that needs to be corrected. It has got to figure out how to punish the wrong doers, not those that come after the wrong doers. It also needs to stay out of criminal matters.

Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


So you're saying any time a program breaks the rules there should be no punishment as long as the coach no longer works there when the NCAA finds out about it?


No, I am saying that if a coach/player breaks an NCAA rule, the NCAA should find a way to punish that coach/player (bans from coaching in NCAA, suspensions, fines, etc.). I find the principle that children should not be punished for the sins of their fathers to be a good one. They may suffer some after effects (losing a star player or coach), but they should not be directly punished (bowl bans and loss of future scholarships).

What NCAA rule did Penn State violate? None. Therefore the NCAA has no business interceding.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby Cougarfan87 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:23 am

Ungoy wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


If the school had a player commit an illegal act, and the coaching staff and administration tried to cover up that crime so that the player could continue to play, and the school benefit from his performance, then yes, they should be sanctioned by the NCAA.

The Sandusky crimes on their own do not merit NCAA sanctions. The University cover-up that went on for 13 years does.



What NCAA infraction did Penn State committ by covering up a CRIMINAL act? If you can cite one, I might agree. Otherwise, you are making an emotional argument, not a logical one.

There may be an NCAA infraction, but no one has stated just what that is yet. Lack of Institutional control refers to NCAA rules, which, as far as I know, there is not one about covering up criminal activity.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby Schmoe » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:29 am

Penn State has stated that they accept the punishment from the NCAA, there's no way they wouldn't. For them to fight the NCAA on this would make them look like bigger monsters in the public eye than they already appear to be. Penn St. is hoping to get this behind them quickly and recover their image, so they're just going to accept it and move on. Smart on their part.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby BroncoBot » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:57 pm

so basically the ncaa wanted to be 60 mill richer and saw a good opportunity.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby hawkwing » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:09 pm

BroncoBot wrote:so basically the ncaa wanted to be 60 mill richer and saw a good opportunity.


From sno's post on the other thread that 60 mil which the NCAA decided they wanted is going to...

"external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university."
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby tmoney35 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:38 pm

Cougarfan87 wrote:
snoscythe wrote:And FWIW, if the NCAA levies any sanctions tomorrow on the basis of the Freeh report or the criminal case (as opposed the NCAA's own investigation--as required by NCAA bylaws), I hope PSU sues the hell out of the NCAA.



Totally agree. I think Penn State should thumb their nose at NCAA and keep handing out scholarships. The NCAA stepped beyond their bounds here. The NCAA is reacting to poplular opinion, just like the prosecutors in Florida in the Trayvon Martin case. It is a sad day when government and quasi government organizations feel they have to weigh in heavy just because popular opinion says so. The head coach is dead, the President fired, the actual wrong doer going to prison for the rest of his life, and the name of the school tarnished. And yet the NCAA felt that wasn't enough. So let's punish student athletes that probably cannot afford college without the Grant in Aid.

I guess those future students should be punished since the administration in the past made mistakes. Absolutely ridiculous. This is a problem with the NCAA that needs to be corrected. It has got to figure out how to punish the wrong doers, not those that come after the wrong doers. It also needs to stay out of criminal matters.

Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


I wondered after reading this, could the NCAA make athletes coming out of high school sign something that says they're liable to pay fines for NCAA violations they commit while in college? Even after they leave, if past violations are found the NCAA could fine that player. Same with the coaches or administrators found to be partaking.

As long as players and coaches can cheat while the schools and players that follow them are the ones that suffer the consequences, the cheating won't stop. Not that it will ever totally stop, but I'm sure you'd see a decline if coaches career's could possible be in jeopardy.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby Wickchad » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:54 pm

tmoney35 wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:
snoscythe wrote:And FWIW, if the NCAA levies any sanctions tomorrow on the basis of the Freeh report or the criminal case (as opposed the NCAA's own investigation--as required by NCAA bylaws), I hope PSU sues the hell out of the NCAA.



Totally agree. I think Penn State should thumb their nose at NCAA and keep handing out scholarships. The NCAA stepped beyond their bounds here. The NCAA is reacting to poplular opinion, just like the prosecutors in Florida in the Trayvon Martin case. It is a sad day when government and quasi government organizations feel they have to weigh in heavy just because popular opinion says so. The head coach is dead, the President fired, the actual wrong doer going to prison for the rest of his life, and the name of the school tarnished. And yet the NCAA felt that wasn't enough. So let's punish student athletes that probably cannot afford college without the Grant in Aid.

I guess those future students should be punished since the administration in the past made mistakes. Absolutely ridiculous. This is a problem with the NCAA that needs to be corrected. It has got to figure out how to punish the wrong doers, not those that come after the wrong doers. It also needs to stay out of criminal matters.

Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


I wondered after reading this, could the NCAA make athletes coming out of high school sign something that says they're liable to pay fines for NCAA violations they commit while in college? Even after they leave, if past violations are found the NCAA could fine that player. Same with the coaches or administrators found to be partaking.

As long as players and coaches can cheat while the schools and players that follow them are the ones that suffer the consequences, the cheating won't stop. Not that it will ever totally stop, but I'm sure you'd see a decline if coaches career's could possible be in jeopardy.


What leverage does the NCAA have over the student once they have left college to enforce a fine? That would be the equivalent of an overdue library fee from a college you have already graduated from and received your diploma. They can send you letters all they want but it really isn't enforceable.
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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby Cougarbib » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:38 pm

tmoney35 wrote:
Cougarfan87 wrote:
snoscythe wrote:And FWIW, if the NCAA levies any sanctions tomorrow on the basis of the Freeh report or the criminal case (as opposed the NCAA's own investigation--as required by NCAA bylaws), I hope PSU sues the hell out of the NCAA.



Totally agree. I think Penn State should thumb their nose at NCAA and keep handing out scholarships. The NCAA stepped beyond their bounds here. The NCAA is reacting to poplular opinion, just like the prosecutors in Florida in the Trayvon Martin case. It is a sad day when government and quasi government organizations feel they have to weigh in heavy just because popular opinion says so. The head coach is dead, the President fired, the actual wrong doer going to prison for the rest of his life, and the name of the school tarnished. And yet the NCAA felt that wasn't enough. So let's punish student athletes that probably cannot afford college without the Grant in Aid.

I guess those future students should be punished since the administration in the past made mistakes. Absolutely ridiculous. This is a problem with the NCAA that needs to be corrected. It has got to figure out how to punish the wrong doers, not those that come after the wrong doers. It also needs to stay out of criminal matters.

Then next time a football program has a player with criminal offenses, the NCAA better poke its nose in there and administer penalties on the institution. Or maybe that is what the NCAA wanted it to do all the time, and this case establishes the precedent to do so.


I wondered after reading this, could the NCAA make athletes coming out of high school sign something that says they're liable to pay fines for NCAA violations they commit while in college? Even after they leave, if past violations are found the NCAA could fine that player. Same with the coaches or administrators found to be partaking.

As long as players and coaches can cheat while the schools and players that follow them are the ones that suffer the consequences, the cheating won't stop. Not that it will ever totally stop, but I'm sure you'd see a decline if coaches career's could possible be in jeopardy.


Let's take it from the Top
Sandusky will likely die in prison after possibly getting the crap kicked out of him a few times - cons have zero tolerance for pedophiles.

Joe Paterno already died in shame and his legacy and records are trashed, and his statue is in storage.

The University President has been fired and his career is in ashes.

Two high ranking officials face criminal charges and iirc have been suspended.

McCreary will likely suffer career derailment.

A couple of janitors got off easier than McCreary.

Sandusky's charity is in ruins.

And Penn State and the citizens of Pennsylvania will write really big checks and anyone associated with Penn State will suffer to one degree or another due to guilt by association.

Penn State Football may never be the same.

I think their may indeed be enough here for rational people to see that bad decisions could come back to bite them hard.

As usual, though, the problem is the number of irrational beings that inhabit planet Earth.

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Re: Death Penalty for PSU Means Death to NCAA's Credibility

Postby vancouvercougar » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:07 am

Regarding the NCAA and their credibility:

IMHO In this case the NCAA punished Penn State appropriately. Civil and criminal punishements are being dealt independently of the NCAA. Penn State as a part of the NCAA gave college sports a huge "black eye", so I think punishment by the NCAA is justified.

In other cases of recruiting violations or other cheating, I would like to see an NCAA suspension of the coach (or coaches) without pay--no jumping to another team to avoid punishment. Suspending individual players and coaches is preferable to bowl suspensions.

Punish the guilty and let the innocent bystanders play.
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