Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby frdbtr » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:28 am

HoosierCougar wrote:
KingCoug wrote:Has BYU Hit Its Ceiling?
Brett Richins
September 17, 2012


It’s also time for Mendenhall to start coaching the entire team and not just the defense. It’s time to start holding an offensive line coach and offensive coordinator accountable for performances like the one we witnessed on Saturday. It’s time to start developing quarterbacks so that you don’t have five-star quarterbacks leaving the program and four-star QBs languishing on the bench while a gutty, gritty, slot receiver plays the position.

http://deepshadesofblue.com/has-byu-hit-its-ceiling/


First, I think Bronco identifies with Nelson. Both were shunned by BYU in favor of more talented players. Both showed the internal resolve and perseverance to right that situation (in their own minds, at least). Bronco beat BYU while playing at Oregon State. RN transferred to BYU and became the starter.

Second, Bronco has said on many occasions that he doesn't really know that much about offensive football, so he stays out of it. I always assumed it was part of his schtick, but Saturday night, I came to the realization that he may really not have a clue about a successful offensive performance. I believe he watched what unfolded in the game and thought "Wow! Utah's front 7 are executing at a very high level!" I don't believe he took the poor offensive performance in to consideration.

This is a glaring weakness. And if Bronco is really as oblivious to offense as he claims, what gives him the confidence to choose an offensive coaching staff? Focus on execution? We clearly aren't there yet. Even if our playbook has only 10 plays that we are going to execute with precision, we haven't done that in the Bronco era.

BTW, when other coaches are reviewing film, they'll come to the conclusion that they can put 2 guys on Hoffman, 2 guys on Friel and the rest in the box without threat of getting beat. OK, that part is TIC, but the rest is my honest opinion.

That said, if not Bronco, who? I know he's not reading the boards, but does he listen to his assistants? Do they have a voice? Can they say, "we aren't doing enough"? and have him listen to what more they can do?


Do you want to know another BYU coach who knew nothing about offensive football? Lavell Edwards. I listened to an interview with a former player once who said once in a game, Lavell was listening in on the sidelines to his offensive coaches with the offense and decided to make a suggestion on a play and it went something like "why don't you run that one play where you guys did this" Lavell knew nothing about offensive football, he was a defensive player who coached defense until he became the head coach. He also had a losing record against teams that won a lot. The funniest thing about all of the griping over the last couple of days is after the 1st 2 games of the year, I was hearing from the media about how creative and immaginative Doman's offense looked, now he sucks. What a turn around.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby Lawboy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:38 am

Deep Shades was PMSing when he wrote this. Dude must have lost a bet to a U fan.

You can not write an article like this without addressing the changes Bronco has made during his tenure. They are many. And they typically get ignored because they do not fit wit hteh narrative people want to portray. Bronco does change, he is just very deliberate abou it. Let's name a few:

3-3-5 to 3-4 defense (2006)
Adding a nickel package to his D (2011)
Firing Coach Hill in season (and wanting to make other changes, but got shut down)
Massive overhaul of the S & C & Nutrition program
Allowing Anae to leave for Doman
Allowing Higgins to leave for Cahoon
Bringing in a few Poly GAs for the team
Re-emphasis on Poly recruiting
Moving Reynolds from RB coach to TE coach to hire DuPaix

Look, Bronco makes changes when he sees a need. But he also gives people the chance to do their jobs before just cutting them loose after 2-3 games, like Wisconsin did.

I think people need to let it play out for 2 more seasons. And if we do not see the results by then, we never will. But until then, he has earned the right. Absolutely earned it.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby Y12 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:42 am

Very poorly written piece in my opinion.

At least 10 flaws in it.

Like VTF rebutted, so have I. It can be found here:

http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2012/ ... s-byu.html
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby frdbtr » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:56 am

Y12 wrote:Very poorly written piece in my opinion.

At least 10 flaws in it.

Like VTF rebutted, so have I. It can be found here:

http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2012/ ... s-byu.html


Good write. I enjoyed it. It is refreshing to hear someone who can write an article while probably still irritated over the loss but remove that emotion and look up facts to back up his opinions.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby KingCoug » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:24 pm

rblack wrote:
The problem is the original article apparently reflects a viewpoint that you agree with, while the second article apparently reflects a viewpoint that you disagree with. Both articles are based on the assumption that future results will reflect their assessment of the situation.


Uh, no, the first article is largely based on what has been so far, i.e. established facts.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby KingCoug » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:39 pm

1. “The Utes were playing with a Division II quarterback.”

Go ahead and be a sour loser and call him whatever you want. Here are the facts.

John Hays was 6-3 as a starter against Utah’s Pac-12 schedule last year. Division II quarterbacks don't do that. Try and rationalize it away all you want by saying John White IV was “virtually the entire offense for Utah in 2011,” but that just shows, again, a poor understanding of how college football works. The quarterback always plays a big role in the success of the team.

There is a healthy portion of the BYU fan base who thinks Utah is better with Hays at quarterback than Jordan Wynn.


There's no explaining this away. Utah was playing with a D II back up QB. We were playing with a senior QB. And look at which one played better.

2. “There was absolutely no excuse for BYU losing to such a depleted Utah team on Saturday.”

I don’t like that BYU lost to a depleted Utah team, but for anyone to vehemently believe there was “absolutely no excuse” for this loss, you need to wake up.

THIS IS A RIVALRY. A very competitive rivalry.

All the clichés of “throw the record out” apply to this rivalry now. The last dozen years have taught us that no matter how unevenly matched the two teams appear on paper, it is going to be a nasty fight that goes down to the wire, unless one team has a mental breakdown.

You take a win anyway you can get it.

2003: Should Urban Meyer’s 10-2 MWC champions have barely beat a 4-8 BYU team by three points? A BYU team with no quarterback, and no semblance of any kind of offense?

2010: Should Utah’s nationally ranked team on its way to a 10 win season have fallen behind 13-0 against barely bowl eligible BYU and needed an extremely lucky bounce on a shanked punt and a blatantly bad replay verdict to win on a blocked field goal?

I miss the beat downs that BYU would give the Utes in the 1980s, and hold out hope that those days will return. For the time being, things have changed. That fact has to be accepted. Utah finally got better coaching and caught up with BYU.

I am not trying to excuse any loss to Utah. I am just saying fans expecting the game to go the way it looks on paper need to wake up to the new reality.


Blah, blah, blah.

Utah was missing 4 of it's key starters. BYU was healthy across the board. BYU has a senior laden team. But look who was more prepared, who played better, and who won. End of story.


5. “The truth is that the Cougars haven’t defeated a program of any consequence since November 28, 2009 when Andrew George scored his touchdown in overtime, giving BYU its last win over Utah.”

There’s some selective memory.

Go ahead and pretend that the 24-point drubbing of Oregon State didn’t happen three weeks later. While you are at it, pretend that the Beavers were not a few minutes away from playing in the Rose Bowl, and were higher ranked in the polls than Utah was.

At the time, I was lobbying Andy Staples with SI.com to put BYU in the top 10 of his AP ballot if BYU beat Oregon State. His response, “A win over Oregon State would be big. OSU is very good.”


Yeah, an Oregon State team that went 8-5 that year.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby KingCoug » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:40 pm

Bronco's total record is 68-25 (.731)

However...

Bronco is 4-13 vs teams .700 or higher. And 2 of those wins are against D-II teams. So, he's really 2-13.

Not counting this year, which is still in progress, Bronco is 12-19 against ranked and/or BCS opponents. However, only 6 of those 12 wins were against opponents that finished the season with a winning record. And only 3 of those 6 opponents with a winning record finished in the Top 25.

The point being...

Each year, the odds are BYU will face at least 1 or 2 ranked/BCS/.700 or better opponents. So, until Bronco can get BYU to do better in the "big games" against the "quality opponents," while continuing to beat the teams we're supposed to, we will not break through that 10 or 11 win season.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby HoosierCougar » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:57 pm

frdbtr wrote:
HoosierCougar wrote:
KingCoug wrote:Has BYU Hit Its Ceiling?
Brett Richins
September 17, 2012


It’s also time for Mendenhall to start coaching the entire team and not just the defense. It’s time to start holding an offensive line coach and offensive coordinator accountable for performances like the one we witnessed on Saturday. It’s time to start developing quarterbacks so that you don’t have five-star quarterbacks leaving the program and four-star QBs languishing on the bench while a gutty, gritty, slot receiver plays the position.

http://deepshadesofblue.com/has-byu-hit-its-ceiling/


First, I think Bronco identifies with Nelson. Both were shunned by BYU in favor of more talented players. Both showed the internal resolve and perseverance to right that situation (in their own minds, at least). Bronco beat BYU while playing at Oregon State. RN transferred to BYU and became the starter.

Second, Bronco has said on many occasions that he doesn't really know that much about offensive football, so he stays out of it. I always assumed it was part of his schtick, but Saturday night, I came to the realization that he may really not have a clue about a successful offensive performance. I believe he watched what unfolded in the game and thought "Wow! Utah's front 7 are executing at a very high level!" I don't believe he took the poor offensive performance in to consideration.

This is a glaring weakness. And if Bronco is really as oblivious to offense as he claims, what gives him the confidence to choose an offensive coaching staff? Focus on execution? We clearly aren't there yet. Even if our playbook has only 10 plays that we are going to execute with precision, we haven't done that in the Bronco era.

BTW, when other coaches are reviewing film, they'll come to the conclusion that they can put 2 guys on Hoffman, 2 guys on Friel and the rest in the box without threat of getting beat. OK, that part is TIC, but the rest is my honest opinion.

That said, if not Bronco, who? I know he's not reading the boards, but does he listen to his assistants? Do they have a voice? Can they say, "we aren't doing enough"? and have him listen to what more they can do?


Do you want to know another BYU coach who knew nothing about offensive football? Lavell Edwards. I listened to an interview with a former player once who said once in a game, Lavell was listening in on the sidelines to his offensive coaches with the offense and decided to make a suggestion on a play and it went something like "why don't you run that one play where you guys did this" Lavell knew nothing about offensive football, he was a defensive player who coached defense until he became the head coach. He also had a losing record against teams that won a lot. The funniest thing about all of the griping over the last couple of days is after the 1st 2 games of the year, I was hearing from the media about how creative and immaginative Doman's offense looked, now he sucks. What a turn around.


Difference being that LaVell took the opportunity to weigh in. Maybe Bronco does, but at every opportunity he denies any involvement.

When LaVell took over as HC and had responsibility for everything, he said, "We should come up with an offense that will be very hard to defend." And that was based on his skill and knowledge on the D side of the ball. I don't see that from the current HC. But my seats are really high in the North Endzone, so I will leave it to Bronco & Co to make the calls.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby frdbtr » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:17 pm

HoosierCougar wrote:Difference being that LaVell took the opportunity to weigh in. Maybe Bronco does, but at every opportunity he denies any involvement.

When LaVell took over as HC and had responsibility for everything, he said, "We should come up with an offense that will be very hard to defend." And that was based on his skill and knowledge on the D side of the ball. I don't see that from the current HC. But my seats are really high in the North Endzone, so I will leave it to Bronco & Co to make the calls.


The interview I heard was from a player long after Lavell retired. No one ever talked about his involvement in the offense during his coaching years as far as I know.

When Bronco was hired, he said he hired Robert Anae because he has never been able to stop his offense. I think Bronco is aware that he wants an offense that is very hard to stop. Why do you think he let Robert Anae go when his offense got so predictable. I still think that Brandon Doman is going to make a very good ocoordinator, I am willing to give him some more time.
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Re: Deep Shades of Blue NAILS it

Postby Yndian » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:35 pm

Y12 wrote:Very poorly written piece in my opinion.

At least 10 flaws in it.

Like VTF rebutted, so have I. It can be found here:

http://www.bluecougarfootball.com/2012/ ... s-byu.html


Well done.
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