Max Hall Caught Thiev'n and Drug'n

[Gunk]

The word "addict" is thrown around quite loosely in the church. A single use or even the occasional use of a substance or behavior does not make one an addict. Given the circumstances of Max's arrest and the addictive nature of cocaine it's easy to assume that he is an "addict" but labeling him such at this point may not be accurate.

I emphasize and sympathize with Max and his family. Hope he seeks and gets the help he needs to overcome his demons. We all wrestle with demons and those demons affect those around us whether they be as apparent as smoking crack or as subtle as envy. True, the consequences of Max's demons reach further but both are just as damaging to the soul and one's salvation. In Max's case he will likely seek help for his demons and hopefully succeed. In the end, he'll be better for it - strengthened. For the rest of us, with more subtle demons we'll probably go through our whole lives justifying them.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Having worked extensively with families suffering from drug or alcohol addiction, when your need for a substance controls your behavior to the extent of shoplifting from two different stores as reported in the article, you are an addict. The first step in recovery is to realize that you are an addict and humble yourself to admit that you are one. And, of course, a ton of rationalization, denial, minimizing, justifying, excusing, and sugar coating precede that. Many friends and family take that manipulation hook, line, and sinker and then end up enabling more of the same or worse decisions. I hope Max does not think he is not an addict or he will not make the sacrifices and commitment to fix it.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Done my fair share of work with addicts too. I agree. All signs point to him being one. Just prefer not to label people without all the facts.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[BOID]

You beat me to it but he had a "personal use" amount of drugs, no dealing involved.

Still.....bad enough. Get ready for an onslaught of jokes from the Utah contingent.

Yeah, because it is so funny that a young man would be ruining his life when he had so much potential. JUST GOES TO SHOW HOW CLASSY THAT FAN BASE IS, proving Max right.

First and foremost, I feel bad for Max and his family. It is tough when personal issues in life become public for the whole world to see. Such is the day and age in which we live. I hope he can get it figured out and turn things around. Secondly, I hate it when an entire fan base is so casually painted with such a wide brush. THERE WILL BE THOSE IN THE UTE FAN BASE WHO WILL MILK THIS FOR ALL THAT THEY CAN, and I am sure there will be others in the Ute fan base (who you will never hear from), who will hope that an individual that is making poor life decisions will be able to turn their life around and get back on track. Isn't that the case with all fan bases, BYU's included?

We are alluding to those Utah fans that will poke fun at Max. There will no doubt be Utah fans looking to take advantage of the situation. No one stated all Utah fans feel this way or will act in this manner, but without a doubt there will be a good number of fans who act like this just like the rival of any university out there. Not sure who was casually painted a certain way, that fact is there are Utah fans that will get a kick out of this.

I for one have been on your side not painting all Utah fans a certain way, I tend to have less of blue goggles. But lets call a spade a spade and we will know full well what will be said.

??? Well at least 2 fans from TFBUN (That Fan Base Up North) showed some class in their comments on this story on the Tribune's website. They are definitely in the minority.

I hope this is Max's awakening to get his life in order. Drug addition is no joke. Here is one Ute fan wishing him the best.

Make that two Ute fans. You beat me to it. Its one thing to run your mouth and embarrass yourself, its another to ruin your family. Get into rehab now

The Deseret News is keeping it classy, none of the worst ute trolls have postings that made it through screening. The on line "azcentral," however, has 80 to 90 percent of its postings from either hateful ute fans or from anti-Mormon bigots. Some of the posts represent both of those demographics.

But, I appreciate the sympathy expressed by all of the decent fans from the program up north. Best of wishes for Max.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[craigoscarson]

Maybe this was cleared up in the thread above, but Max was not charged with dealing. He was charged with theft and possession, more than serious to be sure, but still accuracy is important. For me the news is sad, but not so much because it is Max Hall, but because it is one more story I don't want to hear about men not being the fathers and husbands they are supposed to be. Not that I think illegal drug use is ever right, but when you have children, when you are married, damn you owe something more than your own wants and purposes. You made promises to others. You should keep them and when you don't or can't, seek help. Max didn't. Maybe he will now. I hope he does. The good news I have discovered is that the Saviour really is there in our very darkest hours, if we allow Him in.

That leads me to a philosophical question. Where do you draw the line between stealing to get drugs and dealing to get money to buy more drugs?? I think there is a pretty distinct line, but with an addict (not saying Max is one) isn't that line a lot less defined? He was stealing with cocaine, syringes and a spoon on him.... this lends to a fairly blurry line.

On a different topic... I love Max Hall for one of my greatest sports experiences ever.. the Oklahoma game... I would certainly be willing to assist in paying to help with his family or treatment because of the happiness he gave me that day.. (poor guy, how does a wife stick this out?)

[BoiseBYU]

Maybe this was cleared up in the thread above, but Max was not charged with dealing. He was charged with theft and possession, more than serious to be sure, but still accuracy is important. For me the news is sad, but not so much because it is Max Hall, but because it is one more story I don't want to hear about men not being the fathers and husbands they are supposed to be. Not that I think illegal drug use is ever right, but when you have children, when you are married, damn you owe something more than your own wants and purposes. You made promises to others. You should keep them and when you don't or can't, seek help. Max didn't. Maybe he will now. I hope he does. The good news I have discovered is that the Saviour really is there in our very darkest hours, if we allow Him in.

That leads me to a philosophical question. Where do you draw the line between stealing to get drugs and dealing to get money to buy more drugs?? I think there is a pretty distinct line, but with an addict (not saying Max is one) isn't that line a lot less defined?

On a different topic... I love Max Hall for one of my greatest sports experiences ever.. the Oklahoma game... I would certainly be willing to assist in paying to help with his family or treatment because of the happiness he gave me that day.. (poor guy, how does a wife stick this out?)

I suspect you are right about drawing lines. I do not pretend to know anywhere near as much as many here appear to know. As far as I can tell, for the addict, how you get the money is not as much a big deal as that you get the money. But to me at least, dealing is worse because it is enslaving more people and entrapping them in that great downward cycle of drug addiction. Being addicted is harmful enough. Addicting more is even worse.

[Cougarbib]

Addicts are not capable of worrying about what harm they are doing to their family or to others when they need money to get more of what they are addicted to. That is what addiction is.

Treatment is a rough road and love needs to be tough love - enabling family and friends are just what he does not need.

There is hope. I know people who have recovered. It is impossible to know to what depths a specific individual will need to fall to hit their rock bottom. For some, this episode might be enough. For most, it is not.

Max Hall knows where to turn for help if he is truly ready. The 12 Step Recovery Program is not LDS based, but accepting a higher power is fundamental. Max Hall knows that Jesus Christ is He to whom he should surrender himself.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Gunk]

One of my Sunday school teachers as a youth was a heroin addict. When investigating the church, she would have to shoot up midway so she could make through the full three hours. Rough stuff. She would describe it as such:

Try holding your breathe for 5 min and while your body screams for oxygen, tell yourself that nope you don't need to take that breathe. See how long you make it. Then imagine waking up every morning feeling such and the only way you feel you can make it go away is to give into it.

It's an uphill battle for Max. He's facing something I'd never wish on anyone.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[NDCougar]

The word "addict" is thrown around quite loosely in the church. A single use or even the occasional use of a substance or behavior does not make one an addict. Given the circumstances of Max's arrest and the addictive nature of cocaine it's easy to assume that he is an "addict" but labeling him such at this point may not be accurate.

I emphasize and sympathize with Max and his family. Hope he seeks and gets the help he needs to overcome his demons. We all wrestle with demons and those demons affect those around us whether they be as apparent as smoking crack or as subtle as envy. True, the consequences of Max's demons reach further but both are just as damaging to the soul and one's salvation. In Max's case he will likely seek help for his demons and hopefully succeed. In the end, he'll be better for it - strengthened. For the rest of us, with more subtle demons we'll probably go through our whole lives justifying them.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Having worked extensively with families suffering from drug or alcohol addiction, when your need for a substance controls your behavior to the extent of shoplifting from two different stores as reported in the article, you are an addict. The first step in recovery is to realize that you are an addict and humble yourself to admit that you are one. And, of course, a ton of rationalization, denial, minimizing, justifying, excusing, and sugar coating precede that. Many friends and family take that manipulation hook, line, and sinker and then end up enabling more of the same or worse decisions. I hope Max does not think he is not an addict or he will not make the sacrifices and commitment to fix it.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Done my fair share of work with addicts too. I agree. All signs point to him being one. Just prefer not to label people without all the facts.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I personally do not know if he is an addict or not, I hope he is not but he sure seems to be in a tough spot and his behavior points in one unfortunate direction. I have heard several stories from years ago about his "issues", but I have no firm knowledge of anything so prefer not to get into the rumors without real facts. Doing coke is not usually someone's first foray into drug use, it starts with drinking or for many football players pain meds/prescription drugs.

Prayers to Max and his family, this will be a long uphill journey if this situations is

[Cougarbib]

ND

Max did have a less than stellar reputation in The Mesa area where he grew up. My reputation was not perfect growing up either, but my relatives from that area were not totally surprised by this. I was because I am not from that area. I never had a drug or alcohol problem, but I had friends in Provo that did get involved after I moved to Heber. Drugs were not "cool" yet in Heber until after I graduated. Good timing for me. As a wannabe rock star I saw some of that and since I played in bars and clubs, alcohol was always there. My dad and uncle were drinkers and I guess I saw enough of their friends puking their guts out, that it just never seemed attractive to me - or I would have probably gotten into it. I feel lucky, quite frankly. I hope Max is ready to give that up.

Many addicts do not fit the stereotype of the person lying on a mattress in a dark slumming abandoned house. They look just like you and me.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[valleus]

I work as psychiatrist and frequently work with those who have used drugs. A few points:

1. Nobody ever woke up in the morning and said, "Today I will make a choice that will lead to life long desires for self-harming substances." People usually try drugs because they are experiencing incredible internal psychological pain, and they have had limited success with prior coping behaviors.

2. Most of us humans enjoy morally judging others as a method of improving our feelings of self worth. The most certain way to morally judge others is to identify those with external behaviors (drugs, adultery, smoking) since there is no plausible deniability for observed external behaviors. There is always plausible deniability for the "just as serious" behaviors of pride, arrogance, envy, materialism, etc. Those who point fingers and speak of 'having no sympathy' or tsk tsk him for not thinking about how his actions impact his kids are incapable of honest reflection. I believe these people are the ones Our Lord had in mind in regards to Matthew 7.

3. Maladaptive behaviors are never justified, although they are understandable. I pity and sympathize with Max Hall and all those in similar situations. While it is true that genetic endowment and environmental upbringing can give one a life time of psychological pain, this does not justify maladaptive behavior. No matter where one is in life, there are always behaviors that are on the trajectory to wellness and those that lead away from wellness. Matthew 7 does not mean that we should not tell the truth out of concern for hurting others' feelings. Drugs are horrific, and the long term consequences always outweigh the short term relief that they bring.

No human is justified in morally judging another human. We have no idea how one's genes, upbringing, and circumstances combinedo to produce an individual. Engaging in moral judgment of others is nearly pathognonomic for personality dysfunction in the one who judges. Additionally, moral judgment never benefits the 'transgressor.' Those who are able to successfully manage (like sin, no one ever 'beats' addiction) addiction usually do so in the context of an affirming program (AA) and affirming/loving families. Unconditional love and consistent setting of boundaries are not mutually exclusive.

[Ddawg]

I work as psychiatrist and frequently work with those who have used drugs.

So - you're a smart guy. So - what are you doing slumming with the likes of us guyz?

Unconditional love and consistent setting of boundaries are not mutually exclusive.

That has a familiar ring to it. Something about "meekness, kindness, long suffering, love unfeigned"? I can't quite put my finger on it.