LDS vs Non-LDS

[CrimsonCoug]

Interesting question to think about. Two identical players, which one would you offer? The member or non-member?

Maybe a better way to term this question would be

"In recruiting decisions, how much weight do you put on a recruit being LDS? Zero? Positive? Negative? How large?"

Those saying that there wouldn't be two identical players are avoiding the central question by poking holes in the ceteris paribus assumption in the OP. But I think they're essentially saying that religion shouldn't play a role.

My own view is that from the perspective of the school's ownership, they need to put some positive weight on an LDS RM or clear future RM. Put positive but smaller weight on religiously solid non-LDS kids. Negative weight on LDS kids that don't want to serve missions.

Athletic ability should receive larger weight than any of these, but should not be the sole decision criteria.

[ABYUFAN]

For some reason this reminds me of the recruitment of Sean Salisbury, the LDS kid who durring the recruitment process changed his decision from BYU to USC. That opened up a spot at the QB position for some non-LDS kid from Roseville, Ca, named Robbie Bosco. That worked out well for all involved.

[IowaCougar]

This is an interesting discussion - but you're only considering the viewpoint from the coaches side of the equation. I think you also have to consider the athlete's viewpoint.

I spent a couple of years on a partial scholarship while consistently beating non-LDS full-ride athletes on the team. It did make me feel a little bitter that I was being discriminated against because I was LDS.

By the way all of the coaches on the swim team my freshman year were non-LDS. I don't think that's necessarily a good idea, but that's another area where you get the best person available who is willing, ready, and able to live the honor code.

[hawkwing]

I wouldn't want a team that was all LDS nor a team that was all non-LDS. So, I can't say that there would be a stronger preference to either side, unless the team makeup was such that we needed some diversity.

[Gunk]

This is an interesting discussion - but you're only considering the viewpoint from the coaches side of the equation. I think you also have to consider the athlete's viewpoint.

I spent a couple of years on a partial scholarship while consistently beating non-LDS full-ride athletes on the team. It did make me feel a little bitter that I was being discriminated against because I was LDS.

By the way all of the coaches on the swim team my freshman year were non-LDS. I don't think that's necessarily a good idea, but that's another area where you get the best person available who is willing, ready, and able to live the honor code.

There is definitely preferential treatment of non LDS students at BYU. Non LDS friend of mine applied and got into BYU within a week after applying. Meanwhile, I applied well before she did, had a better GPA and better test scores but had to wait months to be accepted.

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[snoscythe]

If we are serious about becoming nationally relevant we can't continue to have 75% of the team serve missions. I'm not anti mission. I would hope if given a choice my son would choose a mission over football.

BYU in the early 80s had 1/3 of the RM total that we have today. Less than half of the roster should be RMs not 75% like we have today.

I think you're flat wrong, both on your reasoning and your history.

Sports Illustrated did a story about the 1984 Cougars that talked about all the returned missionaries on the team. They did a team photo where the RMs wore blue, and the non-RMs wore black or white. 2/3 of the team were RMs.

Players and coaches who were instrumental in the turnaround of the football program from the 60s to the 80s credit Lavell's policy of encouraging players to serve missions, even in the middle of their eligibility, as a vital element of BYUs ascension to greatness. Read Eldon Fortie's and Mel Olson's contributions in the book "What it Means to Be a Cougar" if you don't believe me.

BYU has had two coaches who've encouraged and embraced missionary work--Lavell Edwards and Bronco Mendenhall. They've had at least two who actively discouraged missions before football eligibility was over and preferred recruiting players without mission plans--Hudspeth and Crowton.

I'll stand with Edwards and Mendenhall. You can ride solo on the Crowton/Hudspeth train.

[mormonrasta]

If we are serious about becoming nationally relevant we can't continue to have 75% of the team serve missions. I'm not anti mission. I would hope if given a choice my son would choose a mission over football.

BYU in the early 80s had 1/3 of the RM total that we have today. Less than half of the roster should be RMs not 75% like we have today.

I think you're flat wrong, both on your reasoning and your history.

Sports Illustrated did a story about the 1984 Cougars that talked about all the returned missionaries on the team. They did a team photo where the RMs wore blue, and the non-RMs wore black or white. 2/3 of the team were RMs.

Players and coaches who were instrumental in the turnaround of the football program from the 60s to the 80s credit Lavell's policy of encouraging players to serve missions, even in the middle of their eligibility, as a vital element of BYUs ascension to greatness. Read Eldon Fortie's and Mel Olson's contributions in the book "What it Means to Be a Cougar" if you don't believe me.

BYU has had two coaches who've encouraged and embraced missionary work--Lavell Edwards and Bronco Mendenhall. They've had at least two who actively discouraged missions before football eligibility was over and preferred recruiting players without mission plans--Hudspeth and Crowton.

I'll stand with Edwards and Mendenhall. You can ride solo on the Crowton/Hudspeth train.

A rousing testimony and anecdotal stories. Not much in the way of fact.

Here were the number of RMs on the roster for select years.

1981- 21
1986- 39
1991- 41
1996- 56
2001- 60
2006- 62
2011- 76
2012- 77

If RMs were more important to Lavell why are there 3 times as many RMs on Bronco's teams than Lavell's early '80's teams?

38 players were drafted from 1981-1990. Three were RMs
21 players were drafted from 1991-2000. 10 were RMs.
22 players were drafted from 2001-present. 9 were RMs.

It's pretty obvious that the majority of our best players did not serve missions. The more missionaries that we have the less draft picks we get and we are less successful on the field. Was this true of the 1984 team? Yes.

Our leading passer Robbie Bosco did not serve a mission.
Our leading receiver David Mills did not serve a mission. Neither did Glen Kozlowski our 2nd leading receiver.
Our leading rusher Lakei Heimuli did not serve.
Our leading scorer Lee Johnson did not serve.
Our leading tackler Cary Whittingham did not serve.

Why slander Hudspeth? He was more successful than any BYU coach prior to him. He gave us our first WAC title. He could actually beat Utah. You know why he was more successful? Because he brought in the Marines, literally. Paving the way for other non members to play football at BYU.

Why slander Crowton? He's an RM (those are better, right?). His teams typically had more RMs than Lavell's teams.

It is undeniable that the majority of the great players did not serve missions. That was true in the '80s. That was even true now. Show me the evidence that suggests otherwise. Don't give me some myth making storytelling. I understand the RM myth is very important to people. It is important to people's faith to believe that serving a mission and achieving athletic greatness are by and large compatible. The reality is that a mission is truly a sacrifice for most athletes. That sacrifice means something is usually lost to gain something else. I am proud of the athletes that make that sacrifice. But let's not pretend that those sacrifices don't have a cost on the program. They certainly do. Just compare Lavell's teams at the end of his career with the teams of the late 70s and early 80s.

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[scott715]

Now that most missions can be served before playing college will have an impact on the results. It just will take a while to see what the effects are.