For the Realists

[Gunk]

Even if by some miracle if we go undefeated, we're not making it to the playoffs.

And, if by chance lighting were to strike twice and we make it to the playoffs, odds are we'd get creamed. No realistic way we hang with Oregon, Alabama or Florida. Personally, I hope we don't make the playoffs so we don't have to watch BYU get creamed and the P5 say, "See, we told you so."

Hill is a great QB, but he's not Heisman material. If you think Hill is the best QB out there, go watch Oregon's Mariota. That guy can fly and throw.

I'm okay with not going undefeated. I'm okay with not making the playoffs. I'm okay with Hill not being a Heisman candidate. It's all unrealistic. But realistically, every team on the remainder of our schedule is beatable. Even with all our warts. Doesn't mean we don't talk about the warts or the warts don't exist, but the reality of the situation doesn't have to get in the way of the fun.

[BYULV]

I don't disagree that we would struggle against any of those teams you mentioned right now, however, I think we still have not peaked, in fact we are far from it at this point. I hope by the end of the season we have a team that could compete with the Oregon's and alabamas of college football. The great thing about college football is that the underdog does win often enough to keep it exciting.

As far as heisman material, I have to disagree about Taysom. He may not be the number one contender right now, but he is probably top 5 and definitely deserving of being in the conversation. Compared to a lot of the guts on "The List", he is having a much better season than the majority.

[Cougs_Rule]

Mostly well said. Forget about playoffs. They would've had to torch UH anD UVA to keep all the love from media. Momentum has receded considerably. And BYU would get creamed by the phyicality of Alabama or FSU.
But, where I differ is that I do expect (even though I left the church) BYU to go undefeated, bc barring injuries, I expect it because BYU can and should with this remaining schedule! It is very realistic and therefore I expect it.

[Screamineagle]

I am going to continue to enjoy it. If and when they lose then its just like so many other seasons get bummed for a few days adjust expectations and come back ready to enjoy it all again.They wont make the playoffs and like wise I am good with it.If they are undefeated at the end I would enjoy seeing them in one of the New Years day Bowls.

[BOID]

Oregon struggled some against Wazzu, so it doesn't seem so far fetched that BYU could show some pluck against them. And no, I don't believe that Mariotta can run quite as impressively as Hill. He might throw better, though. Still, Taysom is definitely Heisman material. If BYU wins out, he will likely finish in the top three. The real reason that Hill would not win that trophy, is not due to his personal performance limitations, but rather because he plays for a program not favored with P5 status. Any P5 program that wins out will likely have its big star awarded ahead of BYU's once-in-a-generation QB. The bias against non-power conferences is stronger now than back when Guys like Ty Detmer and Warren Moon won. The BCS BS was bad enough, but this "Power Five" crap seems even worse.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Cougs_Rule]

P5 is a stronghold on most things. But THill was getting plenty of love post Texas. It has cooled but not gone away. tHill could get it back if he put up some more gaudy numbers, which he could against inferior terms. His run with the horse collar was at least marginal film material for a campaign, so, that's good. But I think Hill could get hot again. There is a fair contingent of media and America that would make BYU Americas team (espn analyst) and Taysom, Americas QB, ala 1984 when Charlene Wells won miss America following 1983's miss America who showed up in playboy. the Heisman voters are ticked at Jameis Winston and want somebody who is going to class and isn't in trouble with the law. So, the stage is partially set.
Even Detmer had a favorable year to win it, particualrly after others, mostly Steve Young, got hosed by the establishment. Detmer broke the ceiling. It wouldn't be as hard for THill. He just needs to p ut up numbers.

[NDCougar]

I am just happy to be 4-0, but do agree with the OP's comments. I like winning, but we are not playing like a playoff team.

I believe we can go undefeated, but not to take credit from the team but this would have as much to do with the schedule vs the quality of our team. The stars aligned (in a negative way) for our schedule. If this were 5-7 years ago we would have a really tough schedule with UT and BSU being top 10 type teams and UH with Sumlin or Briles as the head coach. Unfortunately our schedule will be very plain vanilla and even if we are undefeated I don't see how we make it; we also have not been winning convincingly (ex-UT) as we should vs this competition.

I believe we would get smashed vs most/all of the top 10 teams at the moment. Our defense is not great and outside Daniels a good passing team will have success all day long. Our run game can be pushed around just like vs ND and WI last season. The offense can be made one dimensional if you can contain TH and make him pass, he is a BYU version of Tim Tebow (not necessarily a bad thing, beast of a runner with sporadic passing skills). I believe on a neutral field we would lose to most teams in the top 25. I think if the stars aligned and we did make the playoff that we would get smashed by Alabama, Auburn, Florida State, Oregon, A&M, OU etc (especially if they have 3-4 weeks to prep). That being said, I would love the opportunity to have a shot and you never know what could happen on a given day.

Regarding TH, he is a very good QB. He is not a Heisman QB, he is having success on lesser quality defenses and has real problems passing the ball against tough defenses. I top defense would shut him down, not all his fault given what he would be working with. He is not a Mariotta, Winston (I dislike him but he is legit) etc etc. We are lucky to have him and his numbers will continue to be crazy as we play soft opponents (compared to the P5's). There are guys you can tell are fantastic no matter the competition, we can tell TH is a beast of an athlete but he is not a great QB (very good but not great).

Again, I am pleased to be undefeated and I believe it continues but I am also realistic enough to know we are no where near the caliber of the top 5-10 teams at the moment. Do I want to the chance for a playoff birth or New Years Day bowl, of course I do but don't believe it would be pretty......but you never know so would love the shot. I would rather get destroyed in big time bowl vs win a lower tier bowl not knowing if we are good or not.

[NDCougar]

P5 is a stronghold on most things. But THill was getting plenty of love post Texas. It has cooled but not gone away. tHill could get it back if he put up some more gaudy numbers, which he could against inferior terms. His run with the horse collar was at least marginal film material for a campaign, so, that's good. But I think Hill could get hot again. There is a fair contingent of media and America that would make BYU Americas team (espn analyst) and Taysom, Americas QB, ala 1984 when Charlene Wells won miss America following 1983's miss America who showed up in playboy. the Heisman voters are ticked at Jameis Winston and want somebody who is going to class and isn't in trouble with the law. So, the stage is partially set.
Even Detmer had a favorable year to win it, particualrly after others, mostly Steve Young, got hosed by the establishment. Detmer broke the ceiling. It wouldn't be as hard for THill. He just needs to p ut up numbers.

What is the game that would get TH in the mix? What big "national" type game would TH have that is coming up that would cause the media to get excited? Detmer had Miami to do this, Manziel had Alabama, Winston had various games and most recently the Heisman winners had NC aspirations. I don't see Heisman voters clamoring over a big USU, UCF or even Cal win. He is going to get attention similar to the Northern Illinois QB a few years ago. What would be more likely is having a great year to set up next year vs perceived more quality competition.

This is not Miss America and voters are not voting for TH because they don't like Winston. They simply will not vote for Winston.

[Cougs_Rule]

Good thing we got it cleared up that this isn't miss America.
You don't think there is subjectivity to the voters? You don't think that they will give more looks at a clean cut candidate in this year of football scandals? Hint: I'm not asking.
Texas was to Thill what Miami was to Detmer. What games did Detmer have after Miami? Exactly, you can't remember. When did Miami game occur? Yep, first of season. THill has gone from dark horse to top 8 bc of his performance vs Texas. He will at least get an invite if he keeps it up. But no, I don't expect him to win it. And yes, it could be a good set up for next year.

[NDCougar]

Good thing we got it cleared up that this isn't miss America.
You don't think there is subjectivity to the voters? You don't think that they will give more looks at a clean cut candidate in this year of football scandals? Hint: I'm not asking.
Texas was to Thill what Miami was to Detmer. What games did Detmer have after Miami? Exactly, you can't remember. When did Miami game occur? Yep, first of season. THill has gone from dark horse to top 8 bc of his performance vs Texas. He will at least get an invite if he keeps it up. But no, I don't expect him to win it. And yes, it could be a good set up for next year.

Why will TH be the guy that people would vote for vs Winston? No way Winston wins the Heisman but why would the votes go to TH vs all these other guys (Mariotta, Petty, Knight, Hill)? Do these have scandals I am unaware of? What will happen is one of the candidates will lead his team to a big win and put themselves in a spot for a playoff birth and become the hero while (fair or unfair) TH will be playing USU, Savannah State and MTSU. At this point we should be pleased if he remains in the mix and becomes a legit candidate next year.

TH beat a bad UT team in a game many thought we should win. Detmer beat the defending NC, that were a big favorite to win the NC again, a Heisman Trophy candidate and a defense full of NFL players in a game where we were massive underdogs. There is no comparison in UT vs Miami other than time of year. The time of year helped because the hype machine could help.

The latest odds I could see:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... n-the-rise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No way TH jumps all these guys, no way. Winston is going to trend down. Other programs will get unfair exposure and hype......I will say it right now, ND gets over hyped (or maligned) and if ND keeps winning and pulls out a rabbit out of a hat (I don't believe it happens but I would love it) Golson would be a legit candidate (but more likely in TH's camp for next year). Mariotta keeps winning and it is his. Petty and Knight could be in position.

Notable upcoming games for Heisman competitors:

Mariotta - Stanford, UCLA, Washington, potential conference championship
Knight - Kansas State, OSU, Baylor
Petty - OU, OSU, Kansas State
Gurley - Auburn, Florida, Missouri, potential conference championship
Golson - Stanford, Florida State, USC, Arizona State
Hill - Auburn, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi, LSU, potential conference championship
T. Hill - USU, UCF, Boise State

Do you see where I am going? These guys will be getting huge hype with potential big wins while TH is playing weak competition. Like it or not TH is playing for next years Heisman with hope of being in the top 5 this year.