The Downside of Independence

[Gunk]

Does not compute. You got all excited to take 1st place in each race. Marathoners get excited to take 1st place in 1 marathon. How I'd that any different than getting excited to win 1 football game at a time?

I have known several BYU football players over the years. WAC days. MWC days. Now Independent. The current players are every bit as excited and motivated. And, this team, this year, rebuilding the DL, linebackers, and secondary with a great kicker to replace, and punt returner to replace, could only mask that so long with the offense compensating for all that. Heisman QB gone, JW injured, Hine and Brown. Even the MWC would have exposed that, wait........the MWC did expose that. The season inside a conference is usually over after the 2nd or 3rd conference loss, BTW.

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Bib, did you run competitively?

For a competitive runner, the Boston Marathon is either the "championship" game for them or if they are an Olympic runner it's the lead up to the "championship" game. One has to qualify for the Boston Marathon and to do that you have to get a certain time at a marathon that has been certified as a qualifying marathon for the Boston Marathon.

The runners that are gunning for the Boston Marathon aren't your Oprah Winfrey's.

When I ran on a team as did my wife at BYU, each race was a lead up to a championship race which eventually led the NCAA championships. Like any sport, the game/race factored into something larger, something bigger that was on the horizon.

There is nothing big on the horizon for BYU, especially after that first loss. Again, without playing a down of football, I can tell you what the end outcome of our 2015 season will be.

[ABYUFAN]

The point is we won it and we were contenders to win it each season. There was something to play for. As it stands now, the outcome of a BYU season is already known before the season is played.

As someone that ran competitively, the race is a lot more fun, entertaining, and better when you're running for 1st place. I never actually won a race, but I always tried. That chance to win, to be first meant something and if you ask the runner that came in 98th at the Boston Marathon, they'd tell you the same thing. They weren't running to run it.

Do you want BYU running for running's sake or do you want BYU running to win it? Right now, there's nothing to win. So all we're doing is running to run it.

Gunk we may be talking about two different sides of the same coin, depending on how one looks at it. When you were racing, I'm guessing that you never quit in the middle of the race, even when it became apparent that you wouldn't win. As a matter of fact, I suspect that you'd run with all that you had left at the end, to both pass some runners, and to not get passed by other runners, even if the spot was not 1 or 20 or 30.

I played football in high school, but my youngest son chose cross country instead, so I'm relatively new to the running sport. I did run the Ragnar trail run in Tahoe last year, so I’ve experience a bit of the race atmosphere from the runners side, but most of my experience is from the spectator side. But I see these guys running like mad, sprinting - after having already run two miles, for 30th place. And I see spectators cheering them on like mad.
Much like BYU with the Miami beach bowl, the runners all know where location wise they’ll finish. It's not a surprise. The runners don't know who they will beat, or who will beat them, but they compete all the way through the finish line, and there are many many excited, screaming fans enjoying three or four guys sprinting their hearts out for 30th place.
BYU will not be in the national championship this year. And truthfully no one expected that at the beginning of the season anyway. But that doesn’t stop us from enjoying their sprint to the end; I strongly believe that those who believe that there's literally “nothing” left to watch or play for are forgetting about what we all love so much about sports, the competition.

[Cougarfan87]

I agree with Mormonrasta that I was always more interested in beating top 25 teams, being ranked in the top 25, and beating teams from the BCS conferences. I never really cared much for the MWC crown, so to speak, if we weren't actually also ranked in the top 25. So, we can still pursue the rankings with independence. I do miss establishing storylines with particular programs. For example, watching the Air Force game was always one of my favorites for a couple of reasons. 1. We usually smoked them. 2. It was fun to watch the QB and pitch man both get lit up as they strung plays out to the sideline. And then sometimes they would gash us for some big runs. I also miss games with a competitve Colorado State. You remember playing against Sunshine? He was quite the athlete. All that being said, I do NOT desire to return to the MWC. Our TV and exposure situation is light years ahead. I would like to establish some series with some of our old foes, and have a more repetitive schedule with teams closer to home, because I think limiting some of the travel would be good for the overall team health.

In a perfect scenario, I would play a couple of teams from the Pac 12 (Utah being one of them), a couple of teams from the Big 12 (preferably teams from Texas or Oklahoma), five or six of the better teams from the MWC (New Mexico needs not apply but annual series with Boise State, Utah State, Fresno State, Colorado State, Air Force, and Nevada would be good), and only one team East of the Mississippi each year. That would keep the travel down to a minimum, establish repetitive schedules against teams fans could get excited about, but we would still get out East once in a while. I am not sure games at MTSU, UCF, Syracuse, etc are doing anything to improve recruiting in the East, so one game a year out my way should be sufficient.

[Wolverine]

The point is we won it and we were contenders to win it each season. There was something to play for. As it stands now, the outcome of a BYU season is already known before the season is played.

As someone that ran competitively, the race is a lot more fun, entertaining, and better when you're running for 1st place. I never actually won a race, but I always tried. That chance to win, to be first meant something and if you ask the runner that came in 98th at the Boston Marathon, they'd tell you the same thing. They weren't running to run it.

Do you want BYU running for running's sake or do you want BYU running to win it? Right now, there's nothing to win. So all we're doing is running to run it.

Gunk we may be talking about two different sides of the same coin, depending on how one looks at it. When you were racing, I'm guessing that you never quit in the middle of the race, even when it became apparent that you wouldn't win. As a matter of fact, I suspect that you'd run with all that you had left at the end, to both pass some runners, and to not get passed by other runners, even if the spot was not 1 or 20 or 30.

I played football in high school, but my youngest son chose cross country instead, so I'm relatively new to the running sport. I did run the Ragnar trail run in Tahoe last year, so I’ve experience a bit of the race atmosphere from the runners side, but most of my experience is from the spectator side. But I see these guys running like mad, sprinting - after having already run two miles, for 30th place. And I see spectators cheering them on like mad.
Much like BYU with the Miami beach bowl, the runners all know where location wise they’ll finish. It's not a surprise. The runners don't know who they will beat, or who will beat them, but they compete all the way through the finish line, and there are many many excited, screaming fans enjoying three or four guys sprinting their hearts out for 30th place.
BYU will not be in the national championship this year. And truthfully no one expected that at the beginning of the season anyway. But that doesn’t stop us from enjoying their sprint to the end; I strongly believe that those who believe that there's literally “nothing” left to watch or play for are forgetting about what we all love so much about sports, the competition.

Love the fact that you have become a cross country fan. It is indeed a great sport. Ran CC competitively and coached it for many years at the high school level. Of course those kids in 30th, 50th, and 100th place are sprinting their guts out down the stretch as every place won or lost counts as points in the overall team race which is where the team championships at meets and the state meet are won and lost. I've seen many a meet won, or lost for that matter, on how well your middle of the pack runners performed on a certain day. If those middle of the pack runners don't run with the desire to win as a team, than both the individual and team performance suffers. If middle of the pack runners (as well as the lead runners) don't run a solid race from start to finish, as in beginning, middle, and finish, the sprint at the end is meaningless in the big scheme of things. Sadly, this BYU team ran the first mile well, basically walked the second mile, and very well might sprint to the finish line. Some spectators will smile and applaud that finish. I can applaud that finish as well, but will leave the race knowing that so much more could have been accomplished with a solid race from start to finish. Not perfect mind you, just solid and consistent

[hawkwing]

Just want to point out here... A kid plays football his whole life to get to the college, if he's insanely lucky he will get to play a maximum of 48 games in his entire career. If he gives up on 5 or 6 or 10 of those because the team loses early, he's giving up on himself and his dream. I can't even imagine the regret and shame that would give someone.

[Cougarbib]

Does not compute. You got all excited to take 1st place in each race. Marathoners get excited to take 1st place in 1 marathon. How I'd that any different than getting excited to win 1 football game at a time?

I have known several BYU football players over the years. WAC days. MWC days. Now Independent. The current players are every bit as excited and motivated. And, this team, this year, rebuilding the DL, linebackers, and secondary with a great kicker to replace, and punt returner to replace, could only mask that so long with the offense compensating for all that. Heisman QB gone, JW injured, Hine and Brown. Even the MWC would have exposed that, wait........the MWC did expose that. The season inside a conference is usually over after the 2nd or 3rd conference loss, BTW.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Bib, did you run competitively?

For a competitive runner, the Boston Marathon is either the "championship" game for them or if they are an Olympic runner it's the lead up to the "championship" game. One has to qualify for the Boston Marathon and to do that you have to get a certain time at a marathon that has been certified as a qualifying marathon for the Boston Marathon.

The runners that are gunning for the Boston Marathon aren't your Oprah Winfrey's.

When I ran on a team as did my wife at BYU, each race was a lead up to a championship race which eventually led the NCAA championships. Like any sport, the game/race factored into something larger, something bigger that was on the horizon.

There is nothing big on the horizon for BYU, especially after that first loss. Again, without playing a down of football, I can tell you what the end outcome of our 2015 season will be.

and even though we have never met but may he distant relatives via Del Kunkel, WWC Champion, I can tell you that neither you nor anyone else not in the top 50 qualifiers will be winning the Boston Marathon or moving on to any Olympic glory.

Have you played competitive foitball? Ever been lined up across from someone whose sole mission is to knock you flat on your can and then cream a teammate you were supposed to protect? Ever fought to see you and your teammates ranked in the top 25. Ever game counts towards the former and every game counts towards the latter until you lose 4, which would take you out of top 25 and btw, out of any conference championship contention.

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[Cougarfan87]

I guess that I would add that I don't care so much about being conference champions. But I do care about being regionally dominant. Games against Utah, Utah State, Boise State, Colorado State, Air Force, and Nevada mean a little something more than other games of similar caliber played against teams from Florida, Tennessee, or Texas. One of the first goals for BYU should be to be the dominant program in the region. It is our recruiting base. If we can't dominate the region, the future doesn't look good, and our desires to one day repeat as national champions are hopeless. BYU can't make the top four if it can't dominate Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Idaho. Losses to those teams hurt a lot more. We need to be regionally dominant. That was key to past successful BYU teams. Hence, it should be the focus of our scheduling and attention. Prove to the inter-mountain athletes that there is really only one school in the region worth attending.

[Cougarbib]

I guess that I would add that I don't care so much about being conference champions. But I do care about being regionally dominant. Games against Utah, Utah State, Boise State, Colorado State, Air Force, and Nevada mean a little something more than other games of similar caliber played against teams from Florida, Tennessee, or Texas. One of the first goals for BYU should be to be the dominant program in the region. It is our recruiting base. If we can't dominate the region, the future doesn't look good, and our desires to one day repeat as national champions are hopeless. BYU can't make the top four if it can't dominate Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Idaho. Losses to those teams hurt a lot more. We need to be regionally dominant. That was key to past successful BYU teams. Hence, it should be the focus of our scheduling and attention. Prove to the inter-mountain athletes that there is really only one school in the region worth attending.

Nailed it.

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