Honor Code adjustments after ABA complaint

[HoosierCougar]

The only difference is that BYU is as close to a theological seminary as you can find within the LDS faith. If you convert away from a faith while at another faith's seminary (Catholic, Jewish, Evangelical, Muslim...) would you expect to be allowed to stay?

I get that the law school is different (post grad, no religious ed requirement), and the student must remain an adherent to the honor code.

I would be in favor of a third tier of tuition for exmos:
1. Active member of the LDS church (w/eclesiastical endorsement) gets the full available subsidy
2. Non-member agreeing to stay at BYU and adhere to the honor code gets a partial subsidy
3. Exmo who renounces the church but agrees to abide the honor code whilst a student gets no subsidy

[KingCoug]

However, a student having a faith transition that leads them away from full participation in the LDS church has had no other option but to "pretend", lest he/she be expelled from school.

Faith transition? That's the exact term my crackpot aunt used when talking about how she's left the Church. Could just say "apostitize" but let's try and make it sound all nice and sweet, huh? Of course she also attempted suicide at least three times and walked out on a 35 year marriage to a great guy who remains a faithful member of the Church but I suppose that's to be expected from these "transitioning" types.

[fallball]

Does a student who changes their religious affiliation away from Mormonism, then pay higher tuition?

[Isola]

I'm a heartless monster, but I don't feel particularly bad for people who leave the church while at BYU. A colleague of mine just dropped his kid off at WSU for his freshman year and before the move in was complete the roommate was already smoking pot in the dorm room. All I could think was how hopeful I am that my kids can get in to BYU or BYU-I.

BYU is different from every other university, and I went there because it was different. I want it to stay that way. And every student who leaves the church is just taking the spot of someone who is dying to go there because of the standards and the environment of faith.

It also reminds me of a story my mission companion told me. He went to West Point where Americans get full scholarship with strings attached of course. One guy waited until graduation to tell the school that he had gone through a change of heart and was now a conscientious objector and would not be serving in the Army. The Army made him pay it all back. $250,000.

That story would have come from the late '90s, but here is a news article of something similar happening in just 2013.

[Mars]

A colleague of mine just dropped his kid off at WSU for his freshman year and before the move in was complete the roommate was already smoking pot in the dorm room. All I could think was how hopeful I am that my kids can get in to BYU or BYU-I. BYU is different from every other university, and I went there because it was different. I want it to stay that way. And every student who leaves the church is just taking the spot of someone who is dying to go there because of the standards and the environment of faith.

It doesn't matter your religion, you can't smoke pot at BYU. The standards are the same, Mormon or not. I think those who wish to attend BYU and keep those standards who aren't LDS make the University stronger through the concept of diversity.

[Isola]

It doesn't matter your religion, you can't smoke pot at BYU. The standards are the same, Mormon or not. I think those who wish to attend BYU and keep those standards who aren't LDS make the University stronger through the concept of diversity.

Do you really think the environment at BYU is created solely by the things you aren't allowed to do? As though you could prohibit the same sort of things at the University of Oregon and you would get the same environment as BYU?

Faith and religious belief are at the center of BYU, hence why ecclesiastical endorsements are required for everyone. And you claim that it is diversity that gives strength, but I disagree. Even non-members at BYU should be people of faith, even if it is not our faith. That is not diversity, but common ground. It is something that we share with them.

Diversity is really only helpful if you have first found common ground. Take a football team. They unify as a team to win, and then they use their diverse strengths and skills to full effect towards the goal of winning. At BYU everyone first needs to be unified around faith and a dedication to the principles on which the university was founded. Then the diversity and differences can be used to further the principles of the university.

[BlueK]

Does a student who changes their religious affiliation away from Mormonism, then pay higher tuition?

Yes. The point is if you're contributing to the church as a member then you get more of it subsidized. Even the non-member tuition is heavily subsidized by the church and is nowhere near as expensive as tuition would be at any other private national university.

[KingCoug]

It doesn't matter your religion, you can't smoke pot at BYU. The standards are the same, Mormon or not. I think those who wish to attend BYU and keep those standards who aren't LDS make the University stronger through the concept of diversity.

Do you really think the environment at BYU is created solely by the things you aren't allowed to do? As though you could prohibit the same sort of things at the University of Oregon and you would get the same environment as BYU?

Faith and religious belief are at the center of BYU, hence why ecclesiastical endorsements are required for everyone. And you claim that it is diversity that gives strength, but I disagree. Even non-members at BYU should be people of faith, even if it is not our faith. That is not diversity, but common ground. It is something that we share with them.

Diversity is really only helpful if you have first found common ground. Take a football team. They unify as a team to win, and then they use their diverse strengths and skills to full effect towards the goal of winning. At BYU everyone first needs to be unified around faith and a dedication to the principles on which the university was founded. Then the diversity and differences can be used to further the principles of the university.

Well put. Too many have been brainwashed by the "diversity is our strength" mantra of our day. Going with that philosophy, why have an Honor Code at all? BYU would surely get a more diverse student body without it. BYU is BYU for a reason and if a student doesn't believe in and adhere to at least those basic principles they shouldn't be there.

[hypercoug]

Faith transition? That's the exact term my crackpot aunt used when talking about how she's left the Church. Could just say "apostitize" but let's try and make it sound all nice and sweet, huh? Of course she also attempted suicide at least three times and walked out on a 35 year marriage to a great guy who remains a faithful member of the Church but I suppose that's to be expected from these "transitioning" types.

If your uncle is anything like you, I can't say I blame her
You're not exactly an ambassador of what is good about Mormonism, and I definitely don't get that "disciple of Christ" vibe from the self-righteous, judgmental tone of your posts.

[hawkwing]

Alright guys, remember we're all fans of BYU here. This is a non-judgmental place without any insults.