Big Day Today

[KingCoug]

http://www.si.com/college-football/2016 ... l-rejected

Wow, and I'm not even an insider and this article said almost exactly what I said in my earlier post. I felt the media talk change once the Gay community came out against BYU. It was tangible.

First, I'm not totally convinced the whole LGBT issue was as influential as that article and others are making it out to be. And I'd hate to attribute that kind of influence to frankly evil organizations like GLAAD and NOW if that wasn't the case. Money seemed to be a far more important factor. That said, if the BIG 12 schools really were so spineless and cowardly as to allow the threat of a LGBT "backlash" (whatever that means) to convince them not to invite BYU, they are no better than the anti-religious PAC 12 and BYU should want no part of them.

But, as I've said previously, the absolute worst characters in all this are the BYU fans that would sell their souls to get that BIG 12 invite. I already see them whining over on Cougarboard - not about LGBT groups not showing the tolerance they expect from everyone else or about the BIG 12 wimps, but about BYU and it's Honor Code ruining the whole thing. These people make me truly sick. They whine about the Honor Code but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's Church doctrine they really have an issue with. I, for one, think BYU would be better off without fans like this. They can go root for Utah where they'd feel much more comfortable.

And, on a side note, Mr. IQ of a lima bean himself, Hans Olsen, needs to know his role and shut his mouth. On the radio today he commented on how he thinks BYU could change the wording of the Honor Code to not sound "so harsh" and even said he had been told that was a possibility. Personally I think he's talking out of his yewt and, as usual, acting like he has information he doesn't have. He's incredibly delusional if he thinks a simple wording change would ever satisfy LGBT groups and their supporters. Moreover, he's way off base about it being "too harsh." Reading it below, I'd love to know how he and the rest of the whiners would change it. Besides, BYU already bends over backwards to accommodate those gay students who are willing to follow the Honor Code.

“Homosexual behavior is inappropriate and violates the Honor Code. Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings.”

What they all need to accept is BYU is BYU for a reason. It's owned by the LDS Church. As such, it maintains certain standards and is not obligated to satisfy the world who, as we know, is ever moving farther and farther away from those standards. Any BYU fan, so called, who wants BYU, or the Church, to change in order to be more accepted by the world would do well to check their priorities. ALUF's may not realize it but BYU not getting an invite to the liberal, secular PAC 12 was a compliment. Likewise, BYU upsetting gay and feminist groups in this whole BIG 12 debacle is a sign it's doing something right.

[scott715]

Like and retweet as support for the statement.

[KingCoug]

Love Holmoe's tweet.

And moving away from the tiring LGBT part of the issue, I agree with those who have said the BIG 12 has traded short term financial gain for long term viability. The conference deserves to crumble at this point.

[Gunk]

Like, Hawk, until it happens, I refuse to get my hopes up. It's just not happening, folks. Every 6 months there is a round of rumors, speculations, and crumbled dreams.

I hope BYU gives up on the pipedream because we will not be getting a P5 invite, especially with the LGBT gestapo on our heels. Rather then try to convince ourselves and others we "belong," I say we stand tall and channel that energy into winning games. And should a P5 invite ever come, I hope BYU politely declines. BYU shouldn't waste a single second of effort or thought into joining a P5 conference. We are different. We don't "belong." We are BYU.

[Isola]

Winning cures everything. If we continue to improve and beat teams all over the country, maybe we won't care so much about being tied to an island of misfit toys like the Big 12. There is no doubt that I wanted the money and better late season home games, but maybe Tom still has a few rabbits in his hat to improve those in the years ahead. Do we realize that if we had beaten WV, we would have beaten a team from every P5 conference but the ACC this year? BYU is getting great respect nationally. It will be difficult, but not insurmountable. I do like being able to catch games periodically here in the south, and I think our play anywhere mentality is increasing the fan base.

Winning will cure things for us fans, but winning is not the issue for P5 inclusion. If all of the expansion in the last 6 years has shown us anything it is that winning is one of the last considerations.

I remember back in the MWC days discussing expanding that league and what factors should be considered and there is all sorts of high minded talk about winning, academics, geography, rivalry, tradition, fan base and media market. All the expansion has shown that media market and fan base may be the only factors.

Nebraska, Texas A&M and even Utah make some sense to me, but I still can't believe that Maryland and Rutgers are in the Big Ten and Missouri is in the SEC or even Colorado in the Pac-12.

Maybe I used to be naive about what mattered in college athletics, but all of this has made me really cynical. They talk big about student athletes, but inclusion at the highest level has almost nothing to do with academics or athletics. It is all, beginning, middle and end, about the money.

At least I can take comfort in the fact that at least BYU stands for something.

[ABYUFAN]

Also, BYU and Holmoe are no longer saying that independence is unsustainable. That was before the boosters stepped up big time. Holmoe said that BYU was going to be OK after all, and that was about three months ago already. Yesterday, he said that "Through this process, we learned some things about ourselves..... One thing was that we are a lot stronger than we had thought we were."

Disagree. Being in the MWC would be like polishing a turd... now we are without a doubt a step above that (but still a step below the Big 12)

[EM_Puma]

I feel like the Big 12minus 2 Just used a bunch of schools to get what they want from TV companies.

I said this 3 months ago. I'm not certain they were brilliant enough to have discovered that outcome from their attempt to address expansion, but once they did, I'm sure that began to lead the thought process of the teams in the conference. If it didn't, then they're a bunch of cow turds, but it was a great business decision for them.

[EM_Puma]

Guess what, BYU will never join an existing P5 conference. It just will not happen. Accept this fact, as I did 2 years ago and your life will be much happier.

Ditto. As I said, I was hoping that whatever happened yesterday would lead to an end to the speculation of joining a conference, but it doesn't completely shut the door on that chatter. I simply do not believe in today's setting that BYU will make it into a current P5 conference as they are currently configured.

My conundrum is that I still want to be in a conference. I believe conference life is much more enjoyable, but what do you do when to make such a move would lower your personal status (if it wasn't to a P5 conference)?

I believe the only solution is a new conference, but I don't see that happening. I'm not even sure anymore that conferences like the MWC would even allow BYU back in. Some things have changed. Maybe not quite enough to stop such a possibility, but the day where BYU gets a few buddies together and says, "Let's make a new conference" appear to me to be gone (unless something like the B12 imploded and we were dealing with the "also rans" of the conference).

Count me crazy, but I believe our next affront will be the LGBT community attacking schools that schedule independent BYU. I'm not expressing any judgement on the LGBT community, but it has become very obvious that they believe BYU is something they don't like and they are becoming more and more powerful with the rising generation. Sometimes issues like this make me glad I'm nearing my 60's and in a few decades this will no longer be an issue for me in this life. I pity my grandchildren have to live in such a society.

[byufan4ever]

I now detest the B12. I want no part of them. Just watch, the B12 will fold and when it does Texas and Oklahoma will get into some other P5 conference, but the rest of the teams will be left in the dust with a Big East type status. Will serve them right!

[Cougarfan87]

http://www.si.com/college-football/2016 ... l-rejected

Wow, and I'm not even an insider and this article said almost exactly what I said in my earlier post. I felt the media talk change once the Gay community came out against BYU. It was tangible.

First, I'm not totally convinced the whole LGBT issue was as influential as that article and others are making it out to be. And I'd hate to attribute that kind of influence to frankly evil organizations like GLAAD and NOW if that wasn't the case. Money seemed to be a far more important factor. That said, if the BIG 12 schools really were so spineless and cowardly as to allow the threat of a LGBT "backlash" (whatever that means) to convince them not to invite BYU, they are no better than the anti-religious PAC 12 and BYU should want no part of them.

But, as I've said previously, the absolute worst characters in all this are the BYU fans that would sell their souls to get that BIG 12 invite. I already see them whining over on Cougarboard - not about LGBT groups not showing the tolerance they expect from everyone else or about the BIG 12 wimps, but about BYU and it's Honor Code ruining the whole thing. These people make me truly sick. They whine about the Honor Code but I have a sneaking suspicion that it's Church doctrine they really have an issue with. I, for one, think BYU would be better off without fans like this. They can go root for Utah where they'd feel much more comfortable.

And, on a side note, Mr. IQ of a lima bean himself, Hans Olsen, needs to know his role and shut his mouth. On the radio today he commented on how he thinks BYU could change the wording of the Honor Code to not sound "so harsh" and even said he had been told that was a possibility. Personally I think he's talking out of his yewt and, as usual, acting like he has information he doesn't have. He's incredibly delusional if he thinks a simple wording change would ever satisfy LGBT groups and their supporters. Moreover, he's way off base about it being "too harsh." Reading it below, I'd love to know how he and the rest of the whiners would change it. Besides, BYU already bends over backwards to accommodate those gay students who are willing to follow the Honor Code.

“Homosexual behavior is inappropriate and violates the Honor Code. Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations between members of the same sex, but all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings.”

What they all need to accept is BYU is BYU for a reason. It's owned by the LDS Church. As such, it maintains certain standards and is not obligated to satisfy the world who, as we know, is ever moving farther and farther away from those standards. Any BYU fan, so called, who wants BYU, or the Church, to change in order to be more accepted by the world would do well to check their priorities. ALUF's may not realize it but BYU not getting an invite to the liberal, secular PAC 12 was a compliment. Likewise, BYU upsetting gay and feminist groups in this whole BIG 12 debacle is a sign it's doing something right.

I agree that the doctrine is not ours to change. And you are probably right that a simple change in language probably will not totally appease the LGBT crowd, but it may appease other institutions. As I tell my son all the time, it isn't necessarily what you say, but how you say it sometimes. In this case, I would change your quoted selection as follows:

"BYU, and its sponsoring organization, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, recognize marriage between a man and woman as ordained by God for the creation of families and His posterity here on earth and into the eternities. Students admitted to BYU agree to abide by the honor code, which prohibit any sexual relations outside of this God-ordained marriage."

I am sure that there are those who would take issue with this statement, but it is based in religious belief, and sounds better than singling out any group over another.