Big Day Today

[a1247]

I've never been a fan of the honor code, but it's not for me to judge it I didn't go to BYU. And That's what's wrong with this. Those people who are complaining about the honor code and it's wording have ZERO interest in ever going to BYU. Do they not understand that people are choosing with there own free will to sign the honor code? If you sign it and choose to live by it then why should an outside group who will never be affected by it care! This is absolute garbage and screw you Big12 for caving in and wasting everyone's time. I hope Oklahoma and Texas leave so the other 8 schools can collapse into the nothingness that they are! Iowa State, Kstake, Kansas and the other enjoy your new home in the AAC and the MWC!

[Cougarfan87]

There is no change or tweak to the Honor Code or BYU policy that would suffice the LGBT community. They will always oppose BYU on every front going forward. If the Honor Code is tweaked then the clamor will be for another change to made for more inclusion. The clamor will be for the LDS Church to change its stance.

The LGBT community, per LDS doctrine, is living in sin. Until the LDS doctrine accepts and fully excuses that sin by stating that it is not a sin, there is nothing that can be done or said that will appease this group.

I agree that you cannot appease that group. But I also think you can appease more rationale people and demonstrate, to rationale people, that it is about religious beliefs that have been around forever, rather than just a discriminatory animus.

But I should also clarify that though I think the Church's religious beliefs behind the honor code could be stated better, and more clearly, I am not advocating for any kind of change to the honor code. You know what it is when you sign it. You should either live up to your commitments or go somewhere else.

[Sammich]

I agree that you cannot appease that group. But I also think you can appease more rationale people and demonstrate, to rationale people, that it is about religious beliefs that have been around forever, rather than just a discriminatory animus.

But I should also clarify that though I think the Church's religious beliefs behind the honor code could be stated better, and more clearly, I am not advocating for any kind of change to the honor code. You know what it is when you sign it. You should either live up to your commitments or go somewhere else.

The problem here is that BYU's policies, AS THEY EXIST RIGHT NOW, would be considered perfectly rational to rational people, except that they are being misconstrued, misrepresented, and outright lied about by the non-rational group. It is these misconstructions and lies that are influencing the "rational" people, and not the rational reasons behind BYU's policies. So your statement is based on an incorrect assumption: that rationality will appeal to rational people. It won't as long as there are people willing to twist the truth to hurt BYU and the church.

[KingCoug]

The LGBT groups who complained to the BIG 12 are anything but rational. These are the types that automatically will label you as "hating" gays if you believe the lifestyle is wrong. It doesn't even matter to them if one's view is based on sincere religious beliefs, which most of them know. Gay groups and their supporters have been granted a ridiculous amount of power in recent years and they're taking it as far as they can go while, ironically, becoming the intolerant bullies they're always whining about.

What gets me is why people, businesses, etc are so scared of them. Like this so called "backlash" The BIG 12 would supposedly suffer if they invited BYU to join. What exactly were these groups going to do? Complain? They already do that. Protest? Whoopdeedoo. Their power comes from the cowardice of others. Not so much from anything they can do.

Anyway, I have some swampland in Florida to sell to anyone who actually believes ANY word change of the Honor Code would satisfy these types. But again, there's the problem. WHY is everybody so hung up on satisfying and trying to appease gays? Nobody owes them a dang thing. Especially when they want to try and bully and intimidate others into accepting their way on everything.

[mormonrasta]

I agree that the doctrine is not ours to change. And you are probably right that a simple change in language probably will not totally appease the LGBT crowd, but it may appease other institutions. As I tell my son all the time, it isn't necessarily what you say, but how you say it sometimes. In this case, I would change your quoted selection as follows:

"BYU, and its sponsoring organization, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, recognize marriage between a man and woman as ordained by God for the creation of families and His posterity here on earth and into the eternities. Students admitted to BYU agree to abide by the honor code, which prohibit any sexual relations outside of this God-ordained marriage."

I am sure that there are those who would take issue with this statement, but it is based in religious belief, and sounds better than singling out any group over another.

I think this is great.

[Mars]

The LGBT community, per LDS doctrine, is living in sin.

Per LDS doctrine, everyone not named Jesus Christ lives in sin, including you and me.

[Mars]

I've never been a fan of the honor code, but it's not for me to judge it I didn't go to BYU. And That's what's wrong with this. Those people who are complaining about the honor code and it's wording have ZERO interest in ever going to BYU.

To be fair, there are many people like myself who did go to BYU who are advocating change.

[bamf3000]

I've never been a fan of the honor code, but it's not for me to judge it I didn't go to BYU. And That's what's wrong with this. Those people who are complaining about the honor code and it's wording have ZERO interest in ever going to BYU.

To be fair, there are many people like myself who did go to BYU who are advocating change.

As another person that went to BYU, I'm with this guy.

[frdbtr]

The LGBT groups who complained to the BIG 12 are anything but rational. These are the types that automatically will label you as "hating" gays if you believe the lifestyle is wrong. It doesn't even matter to them if one's view is based on sincere religious beliefs, which most of them know. Gay groups and their supporters have been granted a ridiculous amount of power in recent years and they're taking it as far as they can go while, ironically, becoming the intolerant bullies they're always whining about.

What gets me is why people, businesses, etc are so scared of them. Like this so called "backlash" The BIG 12 would supposedly suffer if they invited BYU to join. What exactly were these groups going to do? Complain? They already do that. Protest? Whoopdeedoo. Their power comes from the cowardice of others. Not so much from anything they can do.

Anyway, I have some swampland in Florida to sell to anyone who actually believes ANY word change of the Honor Code would satisfy these types. But again, there's the problem. WHY is everybody so hung up on satisfying and trying to appease gays? Nobody owes them a dang thing. Especially when they want to try and bully and intimidate others into accepting their way on everything.

their power comes from the media. they had the superbowl removed from NC because of it. they have legit power, people are scared to death of them. Everyone in the media was talking about how the Big12 would be crazy not to invite BYU, then the letter was published from the homosexual community and then all of a sudden, BYU was 3rd in consideration and ESPN starts complaining about giving the Big12 more money if they expand. This may be irrational, but I am actually nervous about ESPN not renewing our contract. You know there is going to be threats from the gay community about that.

[BroncoBot]

I agree that you cannot appease that group. But I also think you can appease more rationale people and demonstrate, to rationale people, that it is about religious beliefs that have been around forever, rather than just a discriminatory animus.

But I should also clarify that though I think the Church's religious beliefs behind the honor code could be stated better, and more clearly, I am not advocating for any kind of change to the honor code. You know what it is when you sign it. You should either live up to your commitments or go somewhere else.

The problem here is that BYU's policies, AS THEY EXIST RIGHT NOW, would be considered perfectly rational to rational people, except that they are being misconstrued, misrepresented, and outright lied about by the non-rational group. It is these misconstructions and lies that are influencing the "rational" people, and not the rational reasons behind BYU's policies. So your statement is based on an incorrect assumption: that rationality will appeal to rational people. It won't as long as there are people willing to twist the truth to hurt BYU and the church.

Thanks sammich.