Dick Harmon on Rise and Fall of BYU Athletics

[BroncoBot]

irrelevance - I have not seen any evidence of irrelevance. BYU has been talked about tons. Even before this year there was talk that BYU could make the playoffs. BYU has had an abysmal year and there is nation talk about how disappointed cougar fans are and how bad the football team has been. If BYU is truly irrelevant there would have been no such talk. As far as this point goes you'll have to explain what you mean more before I can agree on it.

a decided disadvantage in recruiting - against whom? Utah? MWC membership doesn't fix that. Against Utah State, again MWC membership doesn't fix that either. Actually it looks like we are at the same level of recruitment as before, so I'm not sure that I see any evidence that recruiting is either suffering from our current situation or that joining a G5 conference would positively impact it.

front-loaded scheduling that leaves us wounded and out of any conversation by October - I don't agree that our front loaded schedule has the sort of impact that you are discussing here. Fresno State is playing for the MWC championship. What sort of "conversation" have they been part of this year?

no bowl game contracts - this has never hurt us, and actually we make more money and have better exposure and presence in early season appearances than many schools make in their bowl games.

and November scheduling that is simply abysmal - I disagree with you on this point. This year we had Fresno State UNLV, UMASS and Hawaii. joining the MWC would have us have pretty much those same teams in November. Next year we have BSU UMASS NM State and Utah. which is actually a better schedule than we could hope to have in the MWC.

when you say "I want BYU to step up and say "We are BYU, this is who we are, and we like who we are. We are no longer going to let our actions be dictated by what Utah does, nor what the current structure of College Football is selling." I can agree with that - however if BYU joins a conference for the sake of joining the conference they are actually just saying - we are just like any other conference school willing to sell our birthright for a mess of pottage. We'll sell the ability to control our own destiny for the pottage of a potential meaningless "conference championship." (as if anybody even knows who the MWC or AAC conference champion was 3 years ago or even last year)

Great post. I'm praying that BYU stays the indie course if they can't make a P5 conference.

[1967cougar]

Tell me if I get the math right. A person born in 1994 would have been 18 and a freshman at BYU in 2012, our first year of independence. That individual would never have known about BYU's experience with Hair and the MWC. That person would today be 23 years old. Therefore, I submit that anyone 23 years of age and under not be allowed to comment on Cougar Corner about BYU going back to the MW. Reasoning: 1) During those horrible years of being mistreated and looked down upon, these acne infested pre-adults were more interested in girls than football hence unable to make any rational decision whatsoever and, 2) since arriving at the Y their head has been in the sand about the MW and the thrilling possibility or returning to such glory days. (I was going to say that they have their heads up their butts because that is obviously the orifice from which they are speaking when they spew such BYU/MW dribble. But if I had said it that way, the mods would probably have taken the post down).

[YNot]

BYU should not return to the MWC. But, Fresno St. is ranked this week despite only beating BYU (4-9) by 7 points at home. Why? Because they beat Boise St. and SDSU on the way to play for a conference championship.

BYU would benefit greatly from a conference affiliation. It's not just the conference championships and conference awards - although those do play a role. You have a dozen other schools and their fan bases who follow your team and watch your games because you are a conference foe...and that pull for you to do well in the rankings when you have a good year.

I've said this before, but my preference right now would be part of a western AAC expansion. Let East Coast bias work for us. Still have a national schedule, as part of a conference. BYU, Boise, SDSU, and one other school for football (Air Force? Army?. Those schools plus Gonzaga (and perhaps Saint Mary's) for Olympic sports. Many peer institutions from athletics and academics perspectives. The money would be there for a better TV contract and for quality football and basketball attendance.

Here are a couple of sample football schedules:

2020
SEPTEMBER
at Utah
Michigan St.
Air Force
at UConn

OCTOBER
at SMU
Houston
at Navy
Tulsa

NOVEMBER
Missouri
at Boise St.
San Diego St.
at Stanford

Home: Michigan St., Air Force, Houston, Tulsa, Missouri, San Diego St.
Road: Utah, UConn, SMU, Navy, Boise St., Stanford

2021
SEPTEMBER
Arizona (in Vegas)
Utah
at Air Force
South Florida

OCTOBER
Navy
at Tulsa
at Houston
Virginia

NOVEMBER
SMU
at SDSU
Boise St.
at USC

Home: Utah, South Florida, Navy, Virginia, SMU, Boise St.
Road: Arizona (Vegas), Air Force, Tulsa, Houston, San Diego St., USC

Those are actually some pretty good schedules.

[Mars]

Not worth the loss of money and exposure.

[UCChris]

Just one more reason I loathe so many in the so-called "LGBT community." They've proven to be the very bullies they're always whining about. Total lowlifes.

That's pretty damn Christ-like of you. /s

Until BYU decides to stop being bigoted, they won't make a conference. As it should be.

[Mars]

How is BYU bigoted, in your opinion?

[UCChris]

How is BYU bigoted, in your opinion?

From firing a BYUi professor for posting her support of LGBT rights to marry, to electrocuting gay men's penises in the 70's. There's a myriad of examples.

[ABYUFAN]

How is BYU bigoted, in your opinion?

From firing a BYUi professor for posting her support of LGBT rights to marry, to electrocuting gay men's penises in the 70's. There's a myriad of examples.

this raises a few questions Do you consider BYU and BYUI to be the same school (and why the lowercase I? Idaho is a state, which most people consider to be a proper noun) Also are you certain that she was an actual professor, I recall that she was an adjunct faculty member. Also was she terminated or was her contract expired and not renewed?

and 2 - 50 years old actions, in your mind, are relevant to how an institution is judged today? Got it. Why stop at the 1970s? 1970 is closer in time to 1930 than it is to today let's look how every institution treated people in 1930, and use that to form the basis of our judgment. Also how do you know which part of the guys were subject to electroshock therapy?

[UCChris]

How is BYU bigoted, in your opinion?

From firing a BYUi professor for posting her support of LGBT rights to marry, to electrocuting gay men's penises in the 70's. There's a myriad of examples.

this raises a few questions Do you consider BYU and BYUI to be the same school (and why the lowercase I? Idaho is a state, which most people consider to be a proper noun) Also are you certain that she was an actual professor, I recall that she was an adjunct faculty member. Also was she terminated or was her contract expired and not renewed?

and 2 - 50 years old actions, in your mind, are relevant to how an institution is judged today? Got it. Why stop at the 1970s? 1970 is closer in time to 1930 than it is to today let's look how every institution treated people in 1930, and use that to form the basis of our judgment. Also how do you know which part of the guys were subject to electroshock therapy?

Sorry, my phone autocorrected it to lowercase, since thats how it usually is in tech these days (iPhone, etc.) I do consider them to be the same since they are both governed by the same body (the 12 head honchos)

She was an adjunct-professor, so I guess we're both right there? And she was terminated.

Here's an article about a gentleman recounting his experience in the "conversion therapy" in the 70's. He explicitly states where the shocks occurred.

https://www.google.com/amp/abcnews.go.c ... d=13240700

I'm college aged and have several friends that have received less than stellar treatment by staff and students at BYU for being gay. The institution as a whole has a very "we have to accept gays, but we really wish we didn't" vibe to it.

I agree that a 50 year old example isn't perfect, but it does show the beginning of a anti-LGBT culture that I experienced first hand while living in BYU housing.

[ABYUFAN]

Just one more reason I loathe so many in the so-called "LGBT community." They've proven to be the very bullies they're always whining about. Total lowlifes.

That's pretty damn Christ-like of you. /s

Until BYU decides to stop being bigoted, they won't make a conference. As it should be.

In my dictionary "bigotry" is defined as being intolerant of a different opinion. Here you feel that "BYU's position" cannot be tolerated. Got it.