Different expectations for Basketball and Football

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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Gunk » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:56 pm

SpiffCoug wrote:Why does it seem we're doing better at getting "legacy" recruits in basketball than football?

Chatman, Nixon, Haws, Ainge.

Where are the football legacy players?


Why? Because Rose is a better coach and recruiter than Bronco. Rose has BYU actually playing on a national level rather than talking about it and coming up with catching slogans that don't mean what they imply.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Cougarbib » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:13 pm

BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU fans generally have for the basketball team are way lower than for Football.

In basketball

Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.
BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.
Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker
Or if D. Harrison transfers.

If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy
I
We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach

Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry

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Last edited by Cougarbib on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Anae just might be the guy. Wisconsin DC says Anae is totally unpredictable because he just runs a bunch of plays with no rhyme or reason. Whooped Butt on Houston DC for 3 of 4 quarters. Destroyed Texas DC and HC careers.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby BroncoBot » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:57 pm

Cougarbib2 wrote:BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU have for the basketball team are way lower than for basketball.

In basketball

Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.
BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.
Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker
Or if D. Harrison transfers.

If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy

We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach

Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry

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There was a thread about this last year. And I agree with cougarbib2. There is a double standard at BYU between football and basketball. I don't envy Bronco.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Gunk » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:00 pm

Cougarbib2 wrote:BS in this thread. Bluntly put, the expectations BYU have for the basketball team are way lower than for basketball.

In basketball

Nobody even talks about undefeated, NC, Top 10 at the beginning if almost every season.
BYU has never gotten the #1 pick under Rose - and Shawn Bradley, under Roger Reid only stayed a year.
Nobody will bat an eye if we do not land Parker
Or if D. Harrison transfers.

If we get top 25 everyone will be giddy

We can lose in first or 2 ND round of NCAA and never win conference tourney - nobody wants to fire the coach

Saw a poll ranking us 3rd in WCC again this year - no outcry

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Hmm...I'll bite.

In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.

In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.

Looking a bit further at basketball, 68 teams make it to the NCAA tournament. That's only 19% of schools. BYU basketball has gone to the NCAA tournament every year since 2007. Every year, in the last half decade BYU basketball has played on a national level and among the top 20% of the sport with more success than football has.

BYU basketball is improving its post-season performance. We're going places in basketball. Whereas in football, what's the biggest bowl we've played in since 2007...the Las Vegas Bowl...against a 4th place Pac10 team.

In one season, now many ranked teams does football play against? 1 on average; 2 isn't uncommon; 3 is rare. Yes, there are less games, but there are also less teams.

In basketball, it isn't uncommon for BYU to play 3+ ranked teams in a season. That would mean Rose has BYU playing teams within the top 7% of the sport, semi-regularly. Applying that same standard to football, Bronco would have to play teams ranked at least in the Top 8 every season.

Football has no conference championship to play for, so I really don't get that argument.

Basketball still has a conference championship to play for and will be competing for it despite not being "favored" to win. Before football left the MWC, we didn't win the conference championship. Again, football is regressing or at best plateauing.

Assuming NCAA football moved to a tournament system similar to basketball with at most 16 teams making it in (haven't heard talks of any more). That would mean BYU football would have to be in the top 13% of teams - Top 15. Do you honestly think Bronco will have us within the Top 15 anytime soon and there regularly? Maybe once every 5 years or so when the stars align. 10 - 2 seasons won't get us there, not with our schedules.

By contrast, top 13% in basketball lands within the Top 50. BYU under Rose has always been a Top 50 team.

Again, there is no double standard. Basketball is quietly outperforming football. Only thing I don't get is why basketball takes the back seat to football as BYU clearly does better than football in that sport.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby jacksonman » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:14 pm

Thank you Gunk. Couldn't have said it better. Sure BYU Basketball under performs on occasion, but they have also over-performed just as regularly. In addition, basketball recruiting has taken it up a notch and seems to get better every year, while football seems to be losing out more and more to recruits that were ours to lose or we at least had a very good shot at getting.

It would be an easy decision for me to play bball at the Y, but I would have to seriously consider the U or a more local school if I were a football player. Thankfully I wasn't in that position. :D
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby hawkwing » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:35 pm

What exactly do you propose is the football equivalent of bouncing out of the tournament in the first or second game every year? To me it's the equivalent of going 10+ wins every year in football, so in my mind the two programs are pretty much exactly on par.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Schmoe » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:39 pm

It really makes no difference to me that there are 200 extra cupcake schools in basketball. If you consider FCS schools for football, since they're also technically Div-I, BYU football outperforms BYU basketball.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby SpoCoug » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:11 pm

Gunk wrote:In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.

In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.


So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby BroncoBot » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:29 pm

SpoCoug wrote:
Gunk wrote:In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.

In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.


So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?

Sheer numbers don't matter here. Of the 345 D1 teams, only around 119 even matter.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Gunk » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:39 pm

BroncoBot wrote:
SpoCoug wrote:
Gunk wrote:In basketball there are 345 D1 teams. Top 25 in basketball would put you in the top 7%.

In football, there are 119 Division 1A schools. Top 25 in football would put in the top 21%.


So, a #25 ranking in football should feel about as good as basketball finishing...#72?

Sheer numbers don't matter here. Of the 345 D1 teams, only around 119 even matter.


And how many D1 football teams even matter? Far less than 119. Probably only around 50 at best.
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