Different expectations for Basketball and Football

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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby hawkwing » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:28 pm

So strange, between the two I would have assumed most fans would believe that it was the basketball program that had plateaued. With no conference tournament wins, no 2nd round tourney wins...

Personally I think we're moving in the right direction with both sports and am very excited about recruits for both and where we'll be going in the future.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Schmoe » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Since Gunk is such a big fan of throwing numbers out there, I did a little number crunching of my own. Looking at all division one programs, here's how both teams have stacked up since our new coaches got momentum going:

2006: Football-15 (top 7%) Basketball-No tourney appearance (N/A)
2007: Football-14 (top 6%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2008: Football-21 (top 9%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2009: Football-12 (top 5%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2010: Football-Not Ranked (N/A) Basketball-Top 32 (top 9%)
2011: Football-25 (top 11%) Basketball-Top 16 (top 5%)
2012: Football-Not Yet Available (INC) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)

Average percentage in D-1: Football-top 15% Basketball-top 20%

Surprise, surprise, our football team is actually doing better under Bronco than our basketball team is doing under Rose (really, they're doing about the same, but the expectations are always higher for football, which is why we hear all the moaning and groaning from fans about football and fans like Jackhole just sit contentedly with what basketball is doing). And all this despite the feelings of some fans, weird.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Mars » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:49 pm


My comparison?
Hmm...

Making a post-season tournament in basketball is like making a bowl game in football (Top 60).
Making the NIT is like winning a bowl game (Top 30).
Making the NCAA Tourny (Top 64) is like finishing the season ranked (Top 25).
Winning a game in the NCAA Tourny (Top 32) is like finishing the season ranked and winning a bowl game (Top 20-ish).
Winning two games in the NCAA Tourny (Top 16) is like finishing the season ranked and winning a bowl game over a ranked opponent (Top 13-ish).
Winning 3 games in the NCAA Tourny (Top 8) is like making a BCS bowl game (Top 10).
Winning 4 games in the NCAA Tourny (Final Four) is like winning a BCS bowl game (Top 5).
Winning 5 games in the NCAA Tourny (Top 2) is like making the BCS Championship Game (Top 2).
And National championships correlate fairly well with each other, I would think.

How do the programs add up then?
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby BoiseBYU » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:05 pm

jacksonman wrote:I am sorry Schmoe. I am a semi-newbie. Didn't know that I needed to be careful not to say mean things against your man-crush.

Let me repeat. Bronco is doing OK. Some of us are very worried we have hit a ceiling with him. Unless he beats, or at least strongly competes, with Utah this year and wins a big game or two on the road, many of us will concede a ceiling has been reached. Some of you fans seem so content with top 20-25 FINISHES without any real victories. Others dont mind watching what used to be surefire BYU signees go with the U or other school, with the justification that BYU wasn't right for them, or BYU was somehow better than them, so they choose to go elsewhere. I just don't like the DIRECTION this team is headed right now, which is one step about mediocre.

On the other hand, Rose seems to be taking his team in a different DIRECTION. The teams has had consistent success, overachieved, and appears to be on the up and up. I feel CONFIDENT that this team will be great for the next decade, and has the potential to be AMAZING!

I honestly don't know how BYU crept into the top-25 last year. Maybe it was a down year for college football but how does a team whose best victory was a fluke 1 point victory at Ole Miss and beating Tulsa after two months of prep in a sloppy game get into the top-25? Regardless of Utah's final record and pathetic loss against CU (without their QB), I would have much rather had their season (which is hard for me to say).

Time for Bronco to beat Utah this year and next year and get them asking for games during the two year "break".


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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby jacksonman » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:56 am

I guess we shall see, like I have said a dozen times. This year will definitely be a shadow of things to come.

Many of you guys seem to have very short memories. Don't you remember the whoppings we received, at home, against Florida St and Utah?! Do you not remember losing to Utah St, our ugly step-sister?!

I do remember the basketball team barely losing to Baylor and Wake Forest when those teams were top 5 or 6. I do remember BYU dominating Utah for years and always being competitive with Utah St. I do remember beating SDST at home and on the road when they were top 10 or 12, and winning a few upseats on the road and at energy solutions.

In football we have lost the in-state dominance and are beginning to lose the recruiting battle. THIS YEAR IS A CROSSROADS!! We do well this year, and beat Utah and win another one or two big road games, and we can right the ship. 2010 was a bad year last year seemed just as bad (not one really good victory to hang our hats on).
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Mars » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:17 am


I remember that the last game the basketball team played, they lost by 20. Which was very reminiscent of past NCAA Tourny performances (see, BYU-TA&M x2). Drawing conclusions based one a bad game a season is fairly weak evidence of anything. Every team has bad games, almost every year.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Schmoe » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:37 am

I seem to remember in our best year of basketball, we got absolutely pummeled and embarrassed by New Mexico AT HOME (lost by 22) when we were ranked in the TOP 5, and then went on to get demolished by SDSU in the conference tourney (lost by 18). I remember that least season we lost to Utah St. and Loyola Marymount and got owned by St. Mary's.

Short memory indeed.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby BoiseBYU » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:07 am

jacksonman wrote:I guess we shall see, like I have said a dozen times. This year will definitely be a shadow of things to come.

Many of you guys seem to have very short memories. Don't you remember the whoppings we received, at home, against Florida St and Utah?! Do you not remember losing to Utah St, our ugly step-sister?!

I do remember the basketball team barely losing to Baylor and Wake Forest when those teams were top 5 or 6. I do remember BYU dominating Utah for years and always being competitive with Utah St. I do remember beating SDST at home and on the road when they were top 10 or 12, and winning a few upseats on the road and at energy solutions.

In football we have lost the in-state dominance and are beginning to lose the recruiting battle. THIS YEAR IS A CROSSROADS!! We do well this year, and beat Utah and win another one or two big road games, and we can right the ship. 2010 was a bad year last year seemed just as bad (not one really good victory to hang our hats on).


To define success as going 3-1 in our big road games and included in that a win over Utah is off. It is more than success it would be phenomenal. To just go 2-2 will be a MAJOR accomplishment in my book.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby SpiffCoug » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:50 am

Going 2-2 is going to be very difficult. We're playing four very good teams on the road. And very good teams lose very few games at home.
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Re: It's a family affair! So happy for Dalton Nixon

Postby Gunk » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Schmoe wrote:Since Gunk is such a big fan of throwing numbers out there, I did a little number crunching of my own. Looking at all division one programs, here's how both teams have stacked up since our new coaches got momentum going:

2006: Football-15 (top 7%) Basketball-No tourney appearance (N/A)
2007: Football-14 (top 6%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2008: Football-21 (top 9%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2009: Football-12 (top 5%) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)
2010: Football-Not Ranked (N/A) Basketball-Top 32 (top 9%)
2011: Football-25 (top 11%) Basketball-Top 16 (top 5%)
2012: Football-Not Yet Available (INC) Basketball-Top 64 (top 19%)

Average percentage in D-1: Football-top 15% Basketball-top 20%

Surprise, surprise, our football team is actually doing better under Bronco than our basketball team is doing under Rose (really, they're doing about the same, but the expectations are always higher for football, which is why we hear all the moaning and groaning from fans about football and fans like Jackhole just sit contentedly with what basketball is doing). And all this despite the feelings of some fans, weird.


Your numbers are off. There 119 football teams. A 15th ranking is top 12%.

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