Typical BYU basketball game

[frdbtr]

How many times last year did we see late game leads go by the wayside only to lose? If we hadn't blown leads against good teams last year, we would have had a much higher seed in the tourney and a chance to advance. Last night was more of the same, 5 point lead with seconds left in overtime only to blow it and lose in 2OT. This same story is getting old and I don't know what the answer is to fix it.

[craigoscarson]

How many times last year did we see late game leads go by the wayside only to lose? If we hadn't blown leads against good teams last year, we would have had a much higher seed in the tourney and a chance to advance. Last night was more of the same, 5 point lead with seconds left in overtime only to blow it and lose in 2OT. This same story is getting old and I don't know what the answer is to fix it.

It was a coinflip on a neutral court against a top notch opponent. That's more than Vegas thought would happen.

Here's the difference between this year and last. We had big men that could defend at the end of the game. Last year Mika was hurt or fouled out by the end of the game, Worthington was either fouled out or flopping around like a newborn deer, and Austin was usually in foul trouble leaving us with playing KC at the four or having a vastly outmatched Josh Sharp trying to defend the 4 or even 5.

It got so bad that midway through the season Dave Rose chose to start Worthington over our freshman all american just to avoid foul trouble and depth issues at the end of the game.

This year Nielsen and Kaufusi have shown that they can defend the post, Worthington is improved (not great but improved), and Josh Sharp didn't see the light of day... that's why we made it to OT and that's why we had a chance to win.

Our depth in the post is one of the brightest spots on this team and it's so underrated to be able to tolerate foul trouble and exhaustion. I wish it were experienced depth, but for the next 5-6 years after this, depth and experience in the post will NEVER be a problem. We don't get to OT or double OT without having Nielsen and Kaufusi... last year when Mika and Austin got hurt or fouled out, we were dead to rights which is why we dropped so many games at the end that we should have won. This year we made our comeback at the end and had a fighting chance because of our depth.. granted they can't score with their backs to the basket, but Nielsen and Kaufusi can defend.

I'm sorry but I think we overachieved last night and underachieved last year. SDSU is a really really good team.

[craigoscarson]

GAMES WHERE OUR POST DEPTH IN 2013 KILLED US

Wed, Nov 20
vs
#21 Iowa State
L90-88
4-1 (0-0)
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400498262" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MIKA AND AUSTIN WERE THE ONLY 4-5 THAT PLAYED ALL GAME WORTHINGTON PLAYED 3 MINUTES.. No rest for the weary against an athletic team that rallied to beat us

Mika and Austin played in foul trouble most of the game, Iowa State owned the last 5 minutes of the game on the boards and offensive rebounding and post defense cost us at the end.

Tue, Nov 26
vs
#12 Wichita St*
Austin had zero points (like last night) Mika played the game in foul trouble and Worthington played 3 minutes Sharp 2 minutes... no depth, same 4-5 on the floor entire game. No relief in sight. We led this game at half, we lost the rebounding battle at the end and could not defense the post at the end.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400519538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sat, Dec 21
@
#13 Oregon
L100-96 OT

Oregon game lost in OT, once again we ran out of steam, Sharp played 12 minutes with 3 fouls and no points
Mika and Austin foul out, worthington didn't play KC manned the 4 and Sharp the 5 for part of this game in OT... depth absolutely devastated us and again we led at the half.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400507043" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Sat, Dec 28
@
Loyola Marymount
L87-76

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506778" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Austin fouls out, Mika gets doubled all game. Worthington plays 4 minutes, Sharp plays 8 (neither score both have as many fouls as rebounds) KC has to defend the 4

Mon, Dec 30
@
Pepperdine
L80-74
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Austin and Mika foul out. Worthington play 6 minutes Sharp has to play 16 our leading rebounder is KC

Thu, Jan 23
@
Portland
L114-110 3OT

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506785" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Portland beats us on the boards... Van DerMars scores nearly 30 and they beat us in spite of 4 of Portlands GUARDS fouling out. Mika and Austin foul out KC and Sharp play with 4 fouls. Austin plays 52 minutes with little to no relief

Thu, Feb 13
@
Pacific
L89-82

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400506791" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We get outrebounded by 9, our bigs COMBINE FOR A TOTAL OF 6 POINTS, everyone plays in foul trouble, Worthington and Sharp play 11 minutes each

WE LOST 12 GAMES LAST YEAR... 2 DON'T COUNT TO ME AS KC WAS HURT
of those 12 games, 7 would have been in our favor with the frontcourt depth we have this year.

last night against a team I believe to has as good or better than anyone on our schedule last year and on a neutral court... we took them to 2OT and should have won in regulation and OT. Sharp didn't play one minute Worthington only 8 (granted an improved Worthington from last year) ... Nielsen and Kaufusi 22 and 15 minutes respectively and played very good defense... The only guys that looked tired at the end of the game were Fischer and KC... not our post men... and not surprise we lost the game at the perimeter and with tired guards not like last year due to gaping holes in the post. That's why I'm optimistic about this season in spite of this tough loss.


Do I think we're better than last year? Not yet... will we be by the end of the season? Absolutely

[Gunk]

Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc and another player had a career night shooting 3s against us - not because of poor post defense. We were so concerned with protecting the paint that we left the perimeter completely wide open. We did this all season last year, even with Mika.

We may have had big men that could defend the paint, which kept us in the game but we lost because of the same weaknesses that plagued us last year. Don't forget we shot 63% from the free throw line too. Before OT we were shooting 50% from the line.

Once again, we were relegated to playing zone because our opponent was over whelming us when playing man (our better bigs didn't help there). And once again, we left men wide open as we huddled in the middle of the court anytime someone got within a foot of the key, and once again we got out rebounded.

[hawkwing]

I'm not convinced we have a coach on staff who understands defense or how to coach it effectively.

[craigoscarson]

Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc and another player had a career night shooting 3s against us - not because of poor post defense. We were so concerned with protecting the paint that we left the perimeter completely wide open. We did this all season last year, even with Mika.

We may have had big men that could defend the paint, which kept us in the game but we lost because of the same weaknesses that plagued us last year. Don't forget we shot 63% from the free throw line too. Before OT we were shooting 50% from the line.

Once again, we were relegated to playing zone because our opponent was over whelming us when playing man (our better bigs didn't help there). And once again, we left men wide open as we huddled in the middle of the court anytime someone got within a foot of the key, and once again we got out rebounded.

You're wrong. Our perimeter D isn't great but only one player hit any outside shots... Outside of Quinn, they were 3-12 from 3. Quinn was 4-14 prior to this game... It wasn't terrible perimeter D it was a hot shooter that was allowed to shoot 3s (that's one shot you can get off against a zone) They outrebounded us by 10... can you imagine how bad it would have been without Nielsen and Kaufusi? If Worthington and Sharp had to play the 4-5? It would never have made it to OT.

Without the zone, we get eaten alive inside. The tradeoff is letting a poor shooting team get some 3s off and they shot 33.% from 3..(same percentage they got against Utah, a very good perimeter defensive team) take away Quinn and they shot 25%... those are acceptable odds playing zone D. Losing the rebounding battle by 10 is not acceptable and that's with our new found depth... the entire post of the original post is "TYPICAL BYU BASKETBALL GAME" My point is that it wasn't typical at all. In fact I found it very encouraging. We were one called travel, one less turnover, one more made free throw (we shot poorly from the line), one mugging call of Haws, etc. (just one of any of those) from winning against a top 15 team on a neutral court. How is that not encouraging? How is that typical BYU basketball?

Our depth kept us in a game that we were physically and athletically overmatched in. They slowed down, we sped up in the 2nd half. That did not happen the last two years. It happened in this game. Ultimately 1-2 no calls or bad calls, an untimely turnover, one free throw cost us this game against a team that is unquestionably better than us.

[snoscythe]

Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc

Per the ESPN.com boxscore, SDSU shot 33.3% on three-point attempts, and 48.5% from the field overall.

I think you may mixed up the stats as BYU shot 43.3% from three (rounds up to your 44%), but only 38.5% from the field overall.

[Gunk]

Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc

Per the ESPN.com boxscore, SDSU shot 33.3% on three-point attempts, and 48.5% from the field overall.

I think you may mixed up the stats as BYU shot 43.3% from three (rounds up to your 44%), but only 38.5% from the field overall.

Correct. The 44% was before the 2OT, I believe. Was just a number I remembered from last night. SDSU was shooting about 20% from three before last night. Either way, they got "hot."

[craigoscarson]

Hmmm...we lost because of poor perimeter defense - SDSU shot 44% from the arc

Per the ESPN.com boxscore, SDSU shot 33.3% on three-point attempts, and 48.5% from the field overall.

I think you may mixed up the stats as BYU shot 43.3% from three (rounds up to your 44%), but only 38.5% from the field overall.

Correct. The 44% was before the 2OT, I believe. Was just a number I remembered from last night. SDSU was shooting about 20% from three before last night. Either way, they got "hot."

They got the shots that Dave Rose was willing to allow with the exception of the game tying shot on the ball that Fischer should have secured (and the shot that Quinn traveled on before he took it).

Coach Rose knows the tradeoff of playing the zone and it was a good decision and reason we nearly won that game. The breaks didn't fall our way again a better team than us, and we still had chances to win. Encouraging...

Now I'm afraid of our tired legs tonight in a home game for Chaminade (tired legs = missed outside shots) but I'm mostly encouraged by our chances to dance at the end of the season because of the performance last night.

Last year a "typical" BYU loss was about Mika and Austin struggling in game and struggling to stay out of foul trouble because there was no one behind them. So after 3 fouls they played soft. This year we have depth to bang all game and we did and we nearly won. A typical BYU loss involves being really weak and soft in the post at the end of the game... that was not the case last night..

[frdbtr]

How many times last year did we see late game leads go by the wayside only to lose? If we hadn't blown leads against good teams last year, we would have had a much higher seed in the tourney and a chance to advance. Last night was more of the same, 5 point lead with seconds left in overtime only to blow it and lose in 2OT. This same story is getting old and I don't know what the answer is to fix it.

It was a coinflip on a neutral court against a top notch opponent. That's more than Vegas thought would happen.

Here's the difference between this year and last. We had big men that could defend at the end of the game. Last year Mika was hurt or fouled out by the end of the game, Worthington was either fouled out or flopping around like a newborn deer, and Austin was usually in foul trouble leaving us with playing KC at the four or having a vastly outmatched Josh Sharp trying to defend the 4 or even 5.

It got so bad that midway through the season Dave Rose chose to start Worthington over our freshman all american just to avoid foul trouble and depth issues at the end of the game.

This year Nielsen and Kaufusi have shown that they can defend the post, Worthington is improved (not great but improved), and Josh Sharp didn't see the light of day... that's why we made it to OT and that's why we had a chance to win.

Our depth in the post is one of the brightest spots on this team and it's so underrated to be able to tolerate foul trouble and exhaustion. I wish it were experienced depth, but for the next 5-6 years after this, depth and experience in the post will NEVER be a problem. We don't get to OT or double OT without having Nielsen and Kaufusi... last year when Mika and Austin got hurt or fouled out, we were dead to rights which is why we dropped so many games at the end that we should have won. This year we made our comeback at the end and had a fighting chance because of our depth.. granted they can't score with their backs to the basket, but Nielsen and Kaufusi can defend.

I'm sorry but I think we overachieved last night and underachieved last year. SDSU is a really really good team.

I agree with what you are saying but still feel dissatisfied with blowing a 5 point lead in OT instead of sealing the deal. I want to win these games, no moral victories.