What are reasonable expectations for next decade of bball?

[snoscythe]

I'd say KC has dramatically improved, both from Frosh to soph, and from soph to jr.

After watching him plays as a freshman, I wasn't sure I ever wanted to see him play for BYU again.

[E-Zone15]

I'd say KC has dramatically improved, both from Frosh to soph, and from soph to jr.

After watching him plays as a freshman, I wasn't sure I ever wanted to see him play for BYU again.

I'm sure this was said with a little TIC, because Kyle had a great freshman year. That team was Jimmer's team and the picking order for shots went like this: Jimmer (FG 346-765, 3pt 124-313, FT 252-282), Jackson (FG 151-354, 3pt 92-255, FT 68-82), Jimmer (FG 346-765, 3pt 124-313, FT 252-282), Brandon (29 games FG 115-219, FT 93-138), Noah (FG 123-247,3pt 26-60, FT 48-58), Charles (FG 88-212, 3pt 24-83, FT 68-90), and then Kyle (FG 78-162, 3pt 7-27, FT 46-81).
Kyle played his roll; Rebounds- Brandon 6.2, Noah 5.9, Kyle 5.1; Blocks- Noah 61, Brandon 27, Kyle 17; Assists- Jimmer 160, Jackson 97, Kyle 75; Steals- Jackson 101, Jimmer 49, Kyle 39...

But his improvement is there:
Fr: 209 points (5.8 ), 183 rebounds (5.1), 75 assists (2.1), 16 blocks, 39 steals (FG 48.1%, 3pt 25.9%, FT 56.8%)
So: 475 points (14.0), 275 rebounds (8.1), 156 assists (4.6), 15 blocks, 57 steals (FG 49.7%, 3pt 36.4%, FT 57.6%)
Jr: 456 points (13.8 ), 286 rebounds (8.7), 197 assists (6.0), 11 blocks, 59 steals (FG 47.2%, 3pt 28.6%, FT 73.6%)

[Gunk]

5) If you are starter material at BYU, your spot is pretty much guaranteed for four years. Not going to much competition for your spot due to the lack of depth. If are good enough to start but not good enough to go pro there really is no incentive to improve your game other than your own personal desire to get better. This may be why we don't see dramatic improvements in the majority of our players. Lack of competition.

I don't agree with this statement. I'm trying to think of the last player that we didn't see dramatic improvement from over his time here. Maybe we don't agree on what the term "dramatic" means, but every player in recent memory has done better every year in the system, with Anson Winder being the poster boy for that.

Ummm...

Sharp, Worthington, Austin, JT (he practically regressed), Cusick, and a whole bunch of other players. A lot of BYU players don't progress beyond their freshman and sophomore years.

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[Gunk]

I'd say KC has dramatically improved, both from Frosh to soph, and from soph to jr.

After watching him plays as a freshman, I wasn't sure I ever wanted to see him play for BYU again.

Agree, though the numbers may not show it completely. Players like KC seem to be the exception not the norm. KC is staring at a pro career so the incentive is there. That's not the case for most BYU players.

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[ABYUFAN]

5) If you are starter material at BYU, your spot is pretty much guaranteed for four years. Not going to much competition for your spot due to the lack of depth. If are good enough to start but not good enough to go pro there really is no incentive to improve your game other than your own personal desire to get better. This may be why we don't see dramatic improvements in the majority of our players. Lack of competition.

I don't agree with this statement. I'm trying to think of the last player that we didn't see dramatic improvement from over his time here. Maybe we don't agree on what the term "dramatic" means, but every player in recent memory has done better every year in the system, with Anson Winder being the poster boy for that.

Ummm...

Sharp, Worthington, Austin, JT (he practically regressed), Cusick, and a whole bunch of other players. A lot of BYU players don't progress beyond their freshman and sophomore years.

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Worthington was bad this year, he was aweful last year. There was progress, but his starting point was so bad, I'm not sure what you would expect. Austin has progressed quite a bit, his freshman year he would foul out with stupid decisions 40 feet away from the basket that's changed a lot. That said, the players you complain about were never going to be stars anyway. Some players are really at their limit when they enter the program. I don't think anyone looked at Cusick and thought "that guy has serious untapped potential" except, perhaps he never got to where he should be at the free throw line.

[Mars]

Josh Sharp averaged 18.5 minutes a game as a Sophomore at BYU (140 points, 124 rebounds). He averaged 10.3 minutes a game as a Senior (32 points, 54 rebounds).

He's really the only example I found of worsening skill over multiple seasons at BYU over the past 5 years. Stephen Rogers was the next closest, but his issue was injury. Really not a bad percentage there.

[Mars]

Sharp, Worthington, Austin, JT (he practically regressed), Cusick, and a whole bunch of other players. A lot of BYU players don't progress beyond their freshman and sophomore years.

Worthington has been at BYU 2 years, as a Freshman and a Sophomore. Not really fair game yet. 251 minutes, 32 points, 29 rebounds Year #1. 407 minutes, 60 points, 55 rebounds Year #2. That does show definite improvement.

Nate Austin played 450 minutes as a Freshman, playing 35 games, starting 1, scoring 143 points and grabbing 132 rebounds. Austin played 934 minutes as a Junior, playing 35 games, starting 35, scoring 132 points and grabbing 278 rebounds. He has had serious injury issues. It appears that he has sacrificed his offensive game in order to focus on defense and rebounding. Judging by his starts/minutes, that is exactly what the coaches wanted him to do.

Tavernari played 343 minutes as a Freshman. 181 points, 80 rebounds, 17 assists, 18 steals. He played 1042 minutes as a Junior. 517 points, 239 rebounds, 58 assists, 49 steals. His Senior year, he became the 1st player off of the bench, putting up similar numbers to his Sophomore year as a primary starter (that team featured Jimmer, Emery, Davies, Hartsock, Miles, Abouo, and Tyler Haws). But there's no doubt that his overall numbers improved dramatically the longer he was at BYU.

Cusick also only played 2 years at BYU. As a Junior, he played 588 minutes, scoring 110 points and grabbing 52 rebounds. As a Senior, he played 689 minutes, scoring 137 points and grabbing 82 rebounds. Again, improvement.

There are plenty of names that don't stand out much to BYU fans, like Logan Magnusson. But going back and looking at the numbers, even guys like that did improve quite a bit.

[E-Zone15]

Sharp, Worthington, Austin, JT (he practically regressed), Cusick, and a whole bunch of other players. A lot of BYU players don't progress beyond their freshman and sophomore years.

Worthington has been at BYU 2 years, as a Freshman and a Sophomore. Not really fair game yet. 251 minutes, 32 points, 29 rebounds Year #1. 407 minutes, 60 points, 55 rebounds Year #2. That does show definite improvement.

Nate Austin played 450 minutes as a Freshman, playing 35 games, starting 1, scoring 143 points and grabbing 132 rebounds. Austin played 934 minutes as a Junior, playing 35 games, starting 35, scoring 132 points and grabbing 278 rebounds. He has had serious injury issues. It appears that he has sacrificed his offensive game in order to focus on defense and rebounding. Judging by his starts/minutes, that is exactly what the coaches wanted him to do.

Tavernari played 343 minutes as a Freshman. 181 points, 80 rebounds, 17 assists, 18 steals. He played 1042 minutes as a Junior. 517 points, 239 rebounds, 58 assists, 49 steals. His Senior year, he became the 1st player off of the bench, putting up similar numbers to his Sophomore year as a primary starter (that team featured Jimmer, Emery, Davies, Hartsock, Miles, Abouo, and Tyler Haws). But there's no doubt that his overall numbers improved dramatically the longer he was at BYU.

Cusick also only played 2 years at BYU. As a Junior, he played 588 minutes, scoring 110 points and grabbing 52 rebounds. As a Senior, he played 689 minutes, scoring 137 points and grabbing 82 rebounds. Again, improvement.

There are plenty of names that don't stand out much to BYU fans, like Logan Magnusson. But going back and looking at the numbers, even guys like that did improve quite a bit.

Good break down, both Nate and Josh had rolls they played and scoring was not high on their list in that roll. JT gave up his starting job his Sr year and was name MWC 6th Man of the Year, along with making 3rd Team All-MWC as a non-starter. Their production had a direct correlation with games played, starts, minutes played, and who also is on the team that plays a like position:
Josh Sharp
Fr- 28 GP 0 GS, 197 Min(7.0), 33 Pts (1.2), 38 Reb (1.4), 12 Ast, 3 Blks, 4 Stl, 12 TO
So- 32/22, 592 Min(18.5), 140 Pts (4.4), 124 Reb (3.9), 21 Ast, 7 Blks, 13 Stl, 21 TO
Jr- 32/3, 352 Min(11.0), 45 Pts (1.4), 77 Reb (2.4), 14 Ast, 8 Blks, 5 Stl, 6 TO
Sr- 23/10, 238 Min(10.3), 32 Pts (1.4), 54 Reb (2.3), 16 Ast, 10 Blks, 8 Stl, 6 TO

Luke Worthington
Fr- 31/3, 251 Min(8.1), 32 Pts (1.0), 29 Reb (0.9), 4 Ast, 2 Blks, 4 Stl, 14 TO
So- 33/21, 407 Min(12.3), 60 Pts (1.8 ), 55 Reb (1.7), 6 Ast, 2 Blks, 10 Stl, 14 TO

Nate Austin
Fr- 35/1, 450 Min(12.9), 143 Pts (4.1), 132 Reb (3.8 ), 19 Ast, 15 Blks, 9 Stl, 20 TO
So- 36/7, 631 Min(17.5), 131 Pts (3.6), 165 Reb (4.6), 20 Ast, 23 Blks, 21 Stl, 21 TO
Jr- 35/35, 934 Min(26.7), 132 Pts (3.8 ), 278 Reb (7.9), 32 Ast, 31 Blks, 26 Stl, 38 TO
Sr- 10/10, 197 Min(19.7), 30 Pts (3.0), 56 Reb (5.6), 9 Ast, 2 Blks, 7 Stl, 3 TO

Nate Sr stats are very misleading, because he started the Utah game, but didn't even record a minute played, so it should really be 9 games: 197 Min (21.9), 30 Pts (3.3), 56 Reb (6.2), 9 Ast, 2 Blks, 7 Stl, 3 TO... Now also take into account he only played 11 minutes against Southern Virginia and 10 minutes against Hawaii. Also do you think it made a difference that Nate's sophomore year Tyler Haws was playing (return home from his mission). 2011-12 Charles Abouo 11.0 PPG vs 2012-13 Tyler Haws 21.7 PPG...

Jonathan Tavernari
Fr- 28/0, 343 Min(12.3), 181 Pts (6.5), 80 Reb (2.9), 17 Ast, 8 Blks, 18 Stl, 17 TO
So- 35/29, 966 Min(27.6), 459 Pts (13.1), 184 Reb (5.3), 53 Ast, 16 Blks, 48 Stl, 59 TO
Jr- 33/33, 1042 Min(31.6), 517 Pts (15.7), 239 Reb (7.2), 58 Ast, 11 Blks, 49 Stl, 44 TO
Sr- 36/7, 849 Min(23.6), 362 Pts (10.1), 157 Reb (4.4), 54 Ast, 7 Blks, 50 Stl, 44 TO

Craig Cusick
Jr- 35/3, 588 Min(16.8 ), 110 Pts (3.1), 52 Reb (1.5), 74 Ast, 0 Blks, 29 Stl, 25 TO
Sr- 36/12, 689 Min(19.1), 137 Pts (3.8 ), 82 Reb (2.3), 74 Ast, 0 Blks, 29 Stl, 30 TO

JT gave up his starting job (walking in told Coach Rose he would wanted Noah to start in his place) his Sr year. So lets look at how Noah Hartsock and Brandon Davies did in their careers also.

Noah Hartsock
Fr- 27/0, 304 Min(11.3), 66 Pts (2.4), 63 Reb (2.3), 7 Ast, 15 Blks, 6 Stl, 14 TO
So- 36/30, 878 Min(24.4), 233 Pts (6.5), 184 Reb (5.1), 42 Ast, 46 Blks, 18 Stl, 21 TO
Jr- 37/36, 1100 Min(29.7), 320 Pts (8.6), 220 Reb (5.9), 59 Ast, 61 Blks, 21 Stl, 35 TO
Sr- 34/32, 1049 Min(30.9), 572 Pts(16.8 ), 171 Reb (5.0), 50 Ast, 55 Blks, 29 Stl, 53 TO

Brandon Davies
Fr- 35/1, 474 Min (13.5), 188 Pts (5.4), 104 Reb (3.0), 9 Ast, 14 Blks, 13 Stl, 47 TO
So- 29/26, 721 Min (24.9), 323 Pts (11.1), 180 Reb (6.2), 43 Ast, 27 Blks, 20 Stl, 44 TO
Jr- 35/35, 1002 Min(28.6), 532 Pts (15.2), 269 Reb (7.7), 73 Ast, 47 Blks, 51 Stl, 100 TO
Sr- 36/36, 1054 Min(29.3), 637 Pts (17.7), 287 Reb (8.0), 88 Ast, 35 Blks, 48 Stl, 92 TO

[E-Zone15]

To often fans tend only view production on the court with points scored. Like this year, BYU's big men were not asked to score. The BYU coaches wanted rebounds and inside defense from the big men. Luke got his minutes because he would not get pushed around down low, the other side of that he also fouled a lot in pushing the other teams big men off the block. If it were only about scoring Isaac Neilson would have got more minutes. In the 7 games Isaac played 15 minutes or more this past season he recorded:
7 games. 139 Min (19.9), 59 Pts (8.4), 34 Reb (4.9)

[BYULV]

Sharp, Worthington, Austin, JT (he practically regressed), Cusick, and a whole bunch of other players. A lot of BYU players don't progress beyond their freshman and sophomore years.

Worthington has been at BYU 2 years, as a Freshman and a Sophomore. Not really fair game yet. 251 minutes, 32 points, 29 rebounds Year #1. 407 minutes, 60 points, 55 rebounds Year #2. That does show definite improvement.

Nate Austin played 450 minutes as a Freshman, playing 35 games, starting 1, scoring 143 points and grabbing 132 rebounds. Austin played 934 minutes as a Junior, playing 35 games, starting 35, scoring 132 points and grabbing 278 rebounds. He has had serious injury issues. It appears that he has sacrificed his offensive game in order to focus on defense and rebounding. Judging by his starts/minutes, that is exactly what the coaches wanted him to do.

Tavernari played 343 minutes as a Freshman. 181 points, 80 rebounds, 17 assists, 18 steals. He played 1042 minutes as a Junior. 517 points, 239 rebounds, 58 assists, 49 steals. His Senior year, he became the 1st player off of the bench, putting up similar numbers to his Sophomore year as a primary starter (that team featured Jimmer, Emery, Davies, Hartsock, Miles, Abouo, and Tyler Haws). But there's no doubt that his overall numbers improved dramatically the longer he was at BYU.

Cusick also only played 2 years at BYU. As a Junior, he played 588 minutes, scoring 110 points and grabbing 52 rebounds. As a Senior, he played 689 minutes, scoring 137 points and grabbing 82 rebounds. Again, improvement.

There are plenty of names that don't stand out much to BYU fans, like Logan Magnusson. But going back and looking at the numbers, even guys like that did improve quite a bit.

Yea, but you forget Logan Magnusson made the cover of Sports Illustrated