Kyle Collinsworth's selfishness is losing BYU games.

[Brayden Green]

Dave Rose and/or Kyle might read CC. Kyle did everything right against LMU (except a bunch of turnovers... but he played so well in other areas that I'm kind of giving him a pass there). I don't take back anything that I said in this thread, in fact, if you watch the Portland and the LMU game I think it gives this thread more credibility.

Here's my thread about Kyle re: LMU.

http://www.cougarcorner.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[frdbtr]

My opinion is that KC had a bad game against Portland. Sometimes that happens. I think he came out with the mindset in that game that he was going to make sure that BYU didn't lose to Portland after beating Gonzaga and decided to try to dominate the game by himself. I think he realized his mistake and came out against LMU with the mindset to dominate the game by getting good shots for his teammates. Since he is a poor shooter, this is the best mindset to have. If he plays like this for the rest of the year and guys like Emery and Selias(sp?) hit their shots BYU will be nearly unbeatable.

[hawkwing]

One thing the LMU game really highlighted was just how much better of a ball handler KC is than anyone else on the team *right now*. Freshman, who we hope will turn into great PGs in the future were losing the ball left and right. Getting the ball flat out stolen from their hands or throwing it away. KC clearly has a better mastery of how to deal with opposing PGs than anyone else on the team right now.

[Brayden Green]

I'm not sure how you justify that Hawk. He had more turnovers (6) then all the other guards combined. He did a lot of good things that game. Not turning the ball over wasn't one of them.

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[hawkwing]

Of course he had more turnovers than the other guards combined. He played 39 of 40 minutes and handled the ball most of the trips up and down the floor. 3-1 Assist to TO ratio is pretty dang good.

[bigbluepuma]

I'm not sure how you justify that Hawk. He had more turnovers (6) then all the other guards combined. He did a lot of good things that game. Not turning the ball over wasn't one of them.

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Let me see; more time handling the ball/more turnovers. What a surprise! That rotten selfish player had another triple double, and they won again. In fact, when he added more shooting (the "ultimate selfish act"), they pulled ahead. I am dumbfounded!!!

Why is It that everyone but some of BYU's own fans can see what a great player CK is? I watch ESPN broadcasts and hear nothing but superlatives; I read CC and see tons of disses.
AMAZING!!! Why can't we be happy to have a great player at the point, the winningest coach in BYU history, and a very young (overall), but talented team that is improving rapidly. Sure hate to disagree with a lot of CC nation, but I am very excited about Coach Rose, Kyle Collinsworth and BYU basketball.

[BlueK]

I define selfishness as putting personal glory above the team's even if it means losing the game. I guess that's extreme and it doesn't apply all that often. I don't think he has ever played like Stephon Marbury. Others probably define it much more broadly to the point of seeing any ill-advised shot as being "selfish" play.

KC wants to win badly -- so badly that sometimes he makes an incorrect decision or tries to do too much or forgets to check through all his options before trying to force something to happen. On the other hand, so many times it's also been his assertive play that has actually been needed when others are not stepping up.

By my definition he's not a selfish player. But sometimes he has bad days where he's not making the best decisions. He's not doing it for the wrong reasons. He just has off nights sometimes where his decision making on the fly isn't perfect. Mental fatigue (or desperation) when the team isn't playing well can do that. Jimmer sometimes used to do the same thing, IMO.

Kyle's play carried the team last night as well as in the Gonzaga game. He had a bad night at Portland. Most of the time he's very good overall. It was almost funny how hard he seemed to be trying last night to AVOID shooting the ball. I think he was reacting to the Portland game and working extra hard to distribute the ball for better shots (thus the 15 assists). Kudos to him for making that effort. That indicates lack of selfishness and desire to do whatever it takes to win the game.

[Brayden Green]

Well, we all have different opinions. The important thing is to be respectful of everyone's opinions and of the people that make them. I see things differently. I have seen KC chase the triple double at the expense of the team, and have seen his decision making affected by things outside of the game. Dislike of a player, superficial things like triple doubles, things like that.

It is a dumb argument to say that because someone has assists that alone in itself is proof positive that they aren't selfish. Assists are still a personal stat, attributed to you. Westbrook has plenty of assists in the NBA, and if many of us on the board were to rate him on a scale of "Selfish or Unselfish?" he would definitely land on the "Selfish" side for the majority of us, especially the last few years.

Do you want to see an unselfish team? Watch the San Antonio Spurs play (as I have for the last 25 years, being my favorite team ever since I was little). Not one player on that team is concerned with stats, which is why I have loved them for years. They are the epitome of team first play, and they are changing basketball from an unwatchable isolation game to a beatifully intricate well oiled piece of machinery. Watch this ball movement, and tell me if you think it looks more like the game against Portland, or the game against LMU? To quote Coach Popp "Don't let the ball stick!" and the ball sticks (generally) when it gets to KC and Fischer. The fact that it isn't will only help BYU. I hope the trend continues.

[Gunk]

Well, we all have different opinions. The important thing is to be respectful of everyone's opinions and of the people that make them. I see things differently. I have seen KC chase the triple double at the expense of the team, and have seen his decision making affected by things outside of the game. Dislike of a player, superficial things like triple doubles, things like that.

It is a dumb argument to say that because someone has assists that alone in itself is proof positive that they aren't selfish. Assists are still a personal stat, attributed to you. Westbrook has plenty of assists in the NBA, and if many of us on the board were to rate him on a scale of "Selfish or Unselfish?" he would definitely land on the "Selfish" side for the majority of us, especially the last few years.

Do you want to see an unselfish team? Watch the San Antonio Spurs play (as I have for the last 25 years, being my favorite team ever since I was little). Not one player on that team is concerned with stats, which is why I have loved them for years. They are the epitome of team first play, and they are changing basketball from an unwatchable isolation game to a beatifully intricate well oiled piece of machinery. Watch this ball movement, and tell me if you think it looks more like the game against Portland, or the game against LMU? To quote Coach Popp "Don't let the ball stick!" and the ball sticks (generally) when it gets to KC and Fischer. The fact that it isn't will only help BYU. I hope the trend continues.

I'd add the Warriors to the list of perennial unselfish teams. Both teams move the ball around so well it's a thing of beauty to watch and is changing the way the NBA is played. Gone are the isolation plays (cough...Lebron).

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[Brayden Green]

Exactly Gunk. Steve Kerr brought the Spurs' system to GS, and it's a thing of beauty to watch.

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