Response to “Are Mormons Closer to Muslims or Christians?”

[snoscythe]

An African, a white guy, a socialist, an Indonesian, and a Muslim walk into a bar. Bartender says "What'll it be Mr. President?"

[Ddawg]

That wouldn't be Barry Soetoro would it?

[CougarClaw]

Before you condemn an entire religion as violent, before you extrapolate the actions of a few to the whole, before you forget that Islam literally means "peace" and that it's the fastest growing religion in the world, I would invite you to get to know some Muslims. Ask THEM about your theories and ask what they think.

Learn from a legitimate source. Ask a Muslim.

Mormons have been decrying the mis-information published about us for centuries now. Even now there's a thread talking about an NBC interview with an ex-mormon for her views on us. Before you hate the Islam or dismiss everything that is good about them shouldn't you at least get to know a Muslim first? Ask him or her what they believe directly? Shouldn't Mormons of ALL people who have been so hurt by negative stories about us, know better than to get our information from non-original sources?

Break down the walls of misunderstanding and mistrust. You'll find more in common than you expected and I promise they won't cut your heads off.

[Ddawg]

Before you condemn an entire religion as violent, before you extrapolate the actions of a few to the whole, before you forget that Islam literally means "peace" and that it's the fastest growing religion in the world, I would invite you to get to know some Muslims.

My immediate next door neighbor, for the past 11 years, is a Muslim. I do not hate Islam. I do not hate Muslims.

I have no false illusions or misunderstanding of Islam, or it's people. If you are talking to me - you have no idea of how extensively, and how for many, many years I have studied Islam.

How much comfort do you think the citizens of Israel have, knowing that Islam stands for peace? I bet they sleep the sweet, restful sleep of babes.

Certainly Iran understands that Islam stands for peace - as the pour everything they have into developing nuclear weapons in violation of U.N. efforts to stop them, and Iran declares the inevitable annihilation of Israel. I think the ruling Islamic theocracy gets it.

No doubt the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt grasps that Islam stands for peace as Christians are crucified on trees in front of the Presidential Palace, sends tanks to the border of Israel, and tears up the treaty that Egypt had with Israel under Mubarak. Now that the hardcore, fundamental Muslim Brotherhood controls Egypt - calm and certainty reign supreme in Egypt. Yes?

Note - this weekend, in Afghanistan (the Helmand District), 17 Afghans were killed - by beheading. Why? There was a party, and they had danced. This was Muslim on Muslim vicious violence. Not theory. Fact.

I would like to ask you CougarClaw - exactly what are my theories about Islam? Because, I have never posted any of my theories. I have posted factual events that have occurred.

So, what are my theories about Islam that I should explain to a Muslim?

Thanks.

[CougarClaw]

before you extrapolate the actions of a few to the whole,

Then perhaps this is the only line that applies to you specifically. The rest was written to the group or anyone else who can dismiss Islam based out of ignorance.

But perhaps it would help my point if I demonstrated what it feels to read all your examples of Islamic violence. Perhaps we'll try the reverse and talk about Christian violence, fringe groups and Christian killers. Yes Christianity has a dark history with the Crusades and the Inquisitions, and even more recently with the Klu Klux Klan, but how about focusing on just the last decade or so? Here are some fringe Christian activities that I would not want to be assumed, extrapolated as representative of my being Christian. yet whom all self-identify as Christian. They cannot, nor should not be labeled as representing my beliefs.

IndiaThe National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India, has been described as engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs. It is classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, and has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity. The state government reports that the Baptist Church of Tripura supplies arms and gives financial support to the NLFT. The NLFT has threatened to kill Hindus celebrating the annual five-day religious festival of Durga Puja and other religious celebrations. It is believed that up to 5,000 tribal villagers were converted to Christianity by the NLFT in two years. These forcible conversions to Christianity, sometimes including the use of "rape as a means of intimidation," have also been noted by academics outside of India.

Norway - In July 2011, Anders Behring Breivik was arrested and charged with terrorism after a car bombing in Oslo and a mass shooting on Utøya island. As a result of his attacks, 151 people were injured, and 77 killed. Breivik released a 1,500 page manifesto detailing that immigrants were undermining Norway's traditional Christian values, and identifying himself as a "Christian crusader". Analyses of his motivations have noted that he did not only display Christian terrorist inclinations, but also had non-religious, right-wing beliefs.

U.S. - During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ

A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999, believing that their deaths would "lead them to heaven.

The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is criminal and immoral, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.

The Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub, were made by Eric Robert Rudolph.Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist, whereas James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues instead that Rudolph was inspired only in part by religious considerations

Peru: Fourteen traditionalist shamans about to form a shamanic school and association were murdered in Peru over a period of several months prior to October 2011. The murders were allegedly committed by, and/or at the behest of, the local mayor and a group of other evangelical Christians. The mayor's brother was known in the area as a matabrujos or witch killer. The Peruvian government continues to investigate.

should I go on? Perhaps we could talk about altar boy rape, or Fundamental Polygamous Mormon colonies, we could talk about Protestant vs Catholic killings in the UK.

Wouldn't it be absolutely ridiculous to understand and make assumptions about Christianity from the perspective of any of these groups ?

[CougarClaw]

How much comfort do you think the citizens of Israel have, knowing that Islam stands for peace? I bet they sleep the sweet, restful sleep of babes.

you've mentioned Israel several times. I don't disagree that Israel is under attack and in danger from most of its neighbors.

I wonder what you think about Israel disproportionately killing Muslim and Palestinians? Somehow that never makes it into your argument about Israel's security.

[hawkwing]

I've taught Muslims on my mission. Did you know before they get baptized they have to promise the church they will never visit a Muslim country again? Not even the non-extremist countries, because the church knows that a converted Muslim going to any Muslim country is a death sentence.

I'm 100% sure that a Mormon that converted to Islam would have no fears visiting Utah.

[Ddawg]

How much comfort do you think the citizens of Israel have, knowing that Islam stands for peace? I bet they sleep the sweet, restful sleep of babes.

you've mentioned Israel several times. I don't disagree that Israel is under attack and in danger from most of its neighbors.

I wonder what you think about Israel disproportionately killing Muslim and Palestinians? Somehow that never makes it into your argument about Israel's security.

Tell me the last time Israel had a suicide bomber walk into a coffee shop in the Gaza Strip, or Lebanon and blow up Muslims while they were socializing.

Please share the last time an Israeli blew up a school bus, or public transportation bus, or a bus full of Muslims on vacation? It has not happened.

Or, please tell me the last time Israel launched rockets into the Gaza strip - that were not retaliation for terrorist rocket attacks aimed at Jewish civilians. Do you know how many rockets have been launched from Gaza into Israel between 2001-2009? 8,600 rockets. Now, that is from just Gaza. We are not including the rockets from Southern Lebanon.

Now, imagine terrorists had fired 8,600 rockets from Mexico into San Diego, Ca. What do you think our response would be? I assure you, we would not be as reserved and measured as has been Israel's response. No way. The public, the Mayor, the Governor, Congress and the President would not tolerate such a condition to exist.

Your effort to draw a comparison between the terrorist attacks from Gaza and Southern Lebanon into Israel vs. Israel's measured, retaliatory, military responses - it is like comparing apples to an elephant.

The Israeli's would love to end hostilities with the radical Islamic Jihadi's. They would love to live in peace, with security, and no fear for themselves and their children. But - Hamas, the PLO, Iran, Syria, etc. They refuse to end the terrorist activities.

So, it continues - and will continue. The radical Islamic terrorists do not want peace. They want the complete annihilation of Israel and all the Jewish inhabitants. No other outcome is acceptable.

Seriously - if you do not believe that - then I now fully understand the nature of this discussion.

[BoiseBYU]

Ddawg I like your posts and thoughtfulness. Here's my reaction to what you just posted. Radical islamicnterrorists are not Islam. Taliban terrorists are not Islam. They are, if I can sound judgmental, evil people claiming to be acting in the name of Islam but doing so falsely. They do not define Islam any more than abortion doctor murderer who says he does his killing in the name of Christianity defines Christianity or the Hindi terrorists who slaughter Islamic civilians in India define Hinduism. Now I admit that their seems to be many more terrorists purporting to act in the name of Islam than other religions, butnI think my points still valid and sustaining

[Ddawg]

Ddawg I like your posts and thoughtfulness. Here's my reaction to what you just posted. Radical islamicnterrorists are not Islam. Taliban terrorists are not Islam. They are, if I can sound judgmental, evil people claiming to be acting in the name of Islam but doing so falsely. They do not define Islam any more than abortion doctor murderer who says he does his killing in the name of Christianity defines Christianity or the Hindi terrorists who slaughter Islamic civilians in India define Hinduism. Now I admit that their seems to be many more terrorists purporting to act in the name of Islam than other religions, butnI think my points still valid and sustaining

Thank you Boise-BYU. Here's the deal, radical, extremist, violent Islamic Terrorism is a powerful force. They are well funded, sell staffed, and not going away.

If you were able to figure out what % Muslim terrorists are of the total Muslim world - it would still be a vast number. Muslims number over 1.6 billion worldwide. A little less than 25% of the worlds population.

If the % of Muslims in the world that are active terrorists, supporters of terrorism, and sympathizers is only 2% of the Muslim community. That equals 32,000,000 people. Restated, 2% of the Muslims in the world - if they support terrorism emotionally, materially, or actively, is 32 million people. Personally I think the number is much higher when you include sympathizers, people in the Muslim community that condone Jihadi terrorism. I read one study that showed Muslim's condoning terrorism activities around 40%.

Now, in 2011 just about 3/4th of all terrorist murders were committed by Sunni Muslims. That is just 1 Muslim sect. Just the Sunni's were responsible for 12,533 terrorist murders in 2011 according to the National Counter-terrorism Center. A little short of 6,000 attacks annually. That is stunning.

Here's another stunner - these Muslim terrorist groups are supported financially by legitimate countries. Such as, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Cuba, Sudan, North Korea, South Yemen, Pakistan, etc. They are assisted through money donations, materially, training, expertise, sanctuary, and manpower.

Also - if you are a serious Christian, let alone a serious Mormon - what do we believe is coming in the last days? A great war in the Middle East where Israel will be crushed. Who do we think will be the perpetrators of that war against Israel? The Amish? Get my point?

So, do I believe that all Muslim's are evil? No. There are really good folks within the Islamic faith. There are also really bad folks in Islam. But the leaders of Islam - that's where the silent, evil support for all the violence exists. None of the Islamic leadership speaks out and condemns the violence and murder.

That said, make no mistake, not one major (actually, I know on none) Islamic leader has condemned the 9-11 attacks, the thousands of Islamic terrorist attacks that occur annually, the thousands of Islamic terrorist murders committed annually, the thousands of innocent girls and women that are mercilessly murdered every year in "Honor Killings." Isn't that odd? Can anyone imagine the LDS Church leadership silently condoning such activities? Yet, that is exactly what is going on in Islam.

I just want people to be aware - wake up - it's going to get worse. I am not a "the sky is falling" type of guy. I am a pragmatist. I want the facts - then I can make choices and prepare. The future holds trying times.