Kate Kelly Excommunicated

[scott715]

I don't know most of Sonja Johnson's story but I heard her speak at CSUN after she was exed. I have never felt a worst spirit. Kate now no longer has the gift of the holy ghost. She will have a hard time not letting the evil one from filling the void now that he is gone. I think this is the worst part of being exed.

[nuk13]

Boid, thank you for clarifying. I sure agree with your post. It's what I thought I was saying. I remember Johnson and have mentioned her. I haven't heard a peep from her since her brief time in the spotlight. Kelly sure seems on the same page as johnson. One of my original questions was about starting their own church. I forgot about a buddy of mine. He told me he had friends that wanted to marry so he went on line and got a minister's license. Nothing that I know of would stop these people from doing that. The question is why don't they? My assumption is they want 15 million followers not the hundreds, or maybe thousands they have because the rest of us would stay with the Lord and his prophet including the vast majority of our lovely sisters.

[Yndian]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/us ... &referrer=

at least she's not one fopr Hyperbole....

She plans to appeal, and bristled at the notion that church discipline is done out of love.

“That’s classic language of an abusive relationship, where a person abusing and hurting you says that they’re doing it out of love,” she said.

She's fighting to stay in the relationship that she just indicated was an abusive one?

This is where I lost all sympathy for her. Every disciplinary council I've been in has been dominated by the Spirit, love and hope. But then, those people were repentant... That she completely dismisses the concept of church discipline without even participating in her disciplinary council is a slap in the face for not just her leaders, but all the local leaders all over the world who rely on the Spirit to guide them in disciplinary matters.

[scott715]

SCRIPTURES OF THE DAY:
2 Nephi 9:28-29

"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God."

QUOTE OF THE DAY:
Ezra Taft Benson

"The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich. The learned may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them; otherwise, the prophet is just giving his opinion-speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 138).

[Schmoe]

I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):

"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

[BoiseBYU]

I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):

"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

[ABYUFAN]

I've been reading CS Lewis' The Screwtape Letters, and found this passage to be extremely topical (written by a demon to another demon about leading humanity astray, for those who are unfamiliar with the book):

"Now if we can keep men asking 'Is it in accordance with the general movement of our time? Is it progressive or reactionary? Is this the way that History is going?' they will neglect the relevant questions."

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

While we're at it....

“We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”

[Ddawg]

The excommunication of Kate Kelly is both tragic for her personally, and very illustrative for us. Kate Kelly is no dummy. She's a hard working, committed, international human rights attorney. So, to be fair, and understand Kate Kelly's perspective - you have to understand her life's work. To give voice to people that have no voice, and help those that are abused and down-trodden.

The laudable work that Kate Kelly does is the springboard for her wrongheaded activism. I was impressed with the letter her bishop (Bishop Mark Harrison) wrote and sent to Kate Kelly. The problem was not that she had questions - or doubts. We all have questions and doubts about something in the Church at sometime in out life. The problem was her active, aggressive effort to convert others to her point of view - and - that she would not stop her aggressive recruiting/conversion/PR campaign effort to convince everyone and anyone that she was right - and the Church was wrong.

IMHO, the problem with Kate Kelly was not her questioning or having internal doubts. The problem was, Kate Kelly decided to take it upon herself to "steady the Ark" in an aggressive and public way. Ultimately, at some point Kate Kelly "jumped the shark" and crossed over from personally wrestling with trying to understand God's commandments and laws, to forcefully changing the doctrine and practices of the LDS Church to fit her notions and correct perceived sleights. As bright as she is - Kate Kelly became stubbornly wrongheaded.

Personally having doubts and wrestling with your beliefs is a good thing. Joseph Smith used that same personal struggle to lead him to the Sacred Grove in 1820 and discover truth. Those personal struggles that we all have, if done the right way, the Lord's way, will lead to greater understanding and personal growth. When we abandon the private search for greater truth and understanding, and instead get caught up in an ego driven, public debate intended to "force a hand" with pressure, rather than internally grow; one ends up where Kate Kelly is now.

I don't know what the future holds for Kate Kelly. Presently, she has given every indication she will play the victim and remain intransigent in her views and behavior. It's possible Kate Kelly will back off and stop trying to steady the Ark. It's possible she'll realize how wrongheaded and destructive the path is that she is on. It's possible. But, I think it's going to take years for Kate Kelly to realize how wrong her course is. I think she'll slowly get her head right during those quiet moments when she is alone with the Lord and honest with herself. I hope she decides to change her current course.

[urroner]

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

The phrase "be true to oneself," to me, can mean one of two different things.

Firstly, it could mean "I am who I am and I have to be me." Okay, so if I'm a serial killer, is it okay to be true to myself? I think that this interpretation follows the line of "boys will be boys," it's just an excuse to do what we want to do and we don't want to feel guilty about it.

Somewhere in there, the scripture about the natural man being an enemy to God comes into play.

The second definition, and the one I like, is "I have to be truthful/honest with myself about who I am." IOW, I have to see how my actions line up with principles of righteousness and if they don't align, then I've got to make changes because principles of righteousness don't change.

[mizzoucoug]

I like that quote. I think he also said "Hell is filled with people who say 'at least I was true to myself.'" something quite topical too.

The phrase "be true to oneself," to me, can mean one of two different things.

Firstly, it could mean "I am who I am and I have to be me." Okay, so if I'm a serial killer, is it okay to be true to myself? I think that this interpretation follows the line of "boys will be boys," it's just an excuse to do what we want to do and we don't want to feel guilty about it.

Somewhere in there, the scripture about the natural man being an enemy to God comes into play.

The second definition, and the one I like, is "I have to be truthful/honest with myself about who I am." IOW, I have to see how my actions line up with principles of righteousness and if they don't align, then I've got to make changes because principles of righteousness don't change.

I've always hated that phrase. Maybe it's because that was Paula Abdul's go-to line on AI back in the day...it just screams moral relativism when used in other contexts. You do what you feel is right is a brilliant ploy on Satan's part and effectively taps into the natural man's tendency to believe he is always in the right.