I'm TELLING you guys

[hawkwing]

I for one will take a win at Utah State and a 10 win season over a loss and a non-bowl eligible team.

I would to. Glad they made the switch.

So we agree that Riley Nelson has proved himself beyond what Jake Heaps did.

No. That is not the debate we are having. I said that Riley has won a big game yet. You started the debate about Heaps. If you want to debate whether Riley or Jake have proven themselves more, that is a different conversation. They probably come out about even I would think though.

So one player would have lost to Utah State and we likely would have had a non-bowl game season and the other came in and saved both the USU game and season and they are about equal. Don't forget that the first player has had all the practice reps while the second has had little practice time and even less with the starters.

If that's equal to you, then it's clear we're done here.

[jonnylingo]

I for one will take a win at Utah State and a 10 win season over a loss and a non-bowl eligible team.

I would to. Glad they made the switch.

So we agree that Riley Nelson has proved himself beyond what Jake Heaps did.

No. That is not the debate we are having. I said that Riley has won a big game yet. You started the debate about Heaps. If you want to debate whether Riley or Jake have proven themselves more, that is a different conversation. They probably come out about even I would think though.

So one player would have lost to Utah State and we likely would have had a non-bowl game season and the other came in and saved both the USU game and season and they are about equal. Don't forget that the first player has had all the practice reps while the second has had little practice time and even less with the starters.

If that's equal to you, then it's clear we're done here.

Did you forget about 2010? Jake took over and beat up patsies just like riley did, abeit the patsies were a little bit better than the wac teams nelson beat up on. He had utah beat as well if it weren't for anae being chicken or mahina missing his block. He then won his bowl game in good form. Jake looked better in 2010. He looked bad in 2011. Nelson looked a lot better than Jake in 2011 and deserve to get the start. Jake took a dive. I just don't think Riley is as good as you do. Sorry. Plain and simple. He hasn't proven to me that he he is much better than Jake. Was he better in the utah state game, yes but that doesn't mean he has done more than Heaps has. I think they have about the same win total don't they? You are over sensitive about Nelson. I can at least admit jake's shortcomings. I have never said he proved himself either. My point: Neither have proven to be anything great. Riley has a chance this year to be great. I think he comes up as usual. beats crummy teams up and loses to the better teams. he has a shot to prove me wrong. i desperately hope he does.

[Mythranor]

This is the same Utah State team that only lost to Hawaii by 4, San Jose State by 1 and went to overtime with Idaho. They were beating us by a lot more than that when Riley came in, so if Heaps stays the Qu1arterback that's at least three more losses that would have been on the table (not blowout wins like they were with Riley).

[SpiffCoug]

How many turnovers did Riley have? If he eliminated those do you think BYU wins? if the answer is probably yes, the you would have to agree that even with special teams blowing it, he had a shot at winning that game. I might add a very good shot given where the ball was when he created the turnovers. ANyway, I don't want to rehash that. I would agre that special tems should take mos the blame but i would also agree that riley has a big share of the blame. this logic can be used for heaps and the utah game. heaps had it won. anae shot us in the foot and mahina missed his block on what should have been an easy field goal.

I can concede those points. Special teams lost us the game. Riley lost us a chance at winning.

[Y 4 Ever]

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn - it starts out with my declaration that this will be a special season for BYU football - and now it has disintegrated into an argument about whether Riley or Riley (as in..Nelson or Stephenson) are to blame for the loss at TCU last year, and whether or not the Utah State win last year was a good win or not.

Allow me to get us back on track:

I'm TELLING You guys - this is going to be a kick ASS year for BYU football.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - THIS IS OUR YEAR.

I'd say I'm already booking my ticket to Phoenix in January...but I already live here, so no need!

[Cougarbib]

If there ever was a tike to catch BSU it's this year. Lost the best QB they've had, lost a lot of skill players, lost a good defense. BYU has an excellent defense to confound the new QB, has the offense to put up points against a untested defense, and BSU's streak at home was broken last year. BSU has more questions to answer this year. I fully expect BYU to beat them.

This is exactly what i though last year about tcu.

And if we hadn't have had 4 botched punts, it would have been a good assumption.

I think you and I have hashed this point out sufficiently. I am just going to keep my mouth shut. Lets just say that Riley has a chance to redeem himself this year.

Do not read the Daily Herald article today quoting Alisa who had to wait a long time to get his shot while starters were struggling talking about how almost the entire team was - after watching Texas bench their all-everything recruit and beat us using QB3 - starting to ask themselves why BYU wasn't doing the same thing.

I remember asking myself that same question.

Sentiment is that Heaps should have been benched sooner. According to this article, the mismanagement was that coaches waited too long to bench a player who was playing poorly at that point in time, and give someone else a shot.

Heaps lost the team by the 2nd half of the Texad loss. Meanwhile Texas coaches mismanaged QB3 to a 1 point win over Jake Heaps QB1 fiasco.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Cougarbib]

...
No Heisman or anything resembling that. Just a guy from a small town playing his heart out for the Blue and White as the team continues to bounce back from 2010 and the first half of 2011.

I am shocked that you were more excited about that period in history - any student of the game not blinded by hype could have seen that coming and it was often not fun to watch.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I have to disagree with you here, "any student of the game" could not have seen last year coming. Every student of the game would have expected heaps to improve from freshman to sophomore year, or at least be the same. No one would have predicted or expected him to be worse or get worse as the season progressed, it isn't logical and not usual progression of a college QB. I don't recall a single post from last year predicting Heaps would play the way he did. If I missed those posts, I would love to see them. (posts before he played badly, not after the fact . . . There are too many of those already)

It was clear in the first game. Extremely clear. And the coaches had to know about the poor workout attendance. They should have seen the timing issues and leadership issues coming.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Cougarbib]

I won't dwell on the off the field stuff, suffice it to say I'll be happy when certain "leaders" graduate.

I think the off the field stuff has been hashed apart and no one really knows anything. Certainly lots of fiery opinions out there about how things have played out though. So when these "leaders" graduate and BYU goes back to wondering where to get leadership you'll be more excited?

As far as certainty, I just don't think it's the kind of year where anything can happen. I don't think we have much of a chance to bust the BCS. Furthermore, I think we go into all but 1 or 2 games knowing the outcome. The games I think we will win I don't think I have much doubt about and the same goes for the ones I think we will lose.

Not much different from any other year for BYU football, or anyU college team really. There are gimme games and games you should win and a couple that will be toss ups. It sounds like you've just tempered expectations a little.

I don't see us winning more than 9 regular season games. Could we win out? I admit it's possible. But I will believe we can beat Utah when I see it (mostly for psychological reasons and because our guys don't get up for it the way the yewts do) or a talented BCS program like ND on the road. My guess is we split GT/BSU.

I agree for the most part, but BYU definitely "got up" for the utah game last year. They were cleary the more determined team through the first half. It didn't help though.

Again, I think I'm not as excited because I don't feel like (RN should be qb)it's a year where anything can happen and our reward will be a bowl in SoCal against the #2 or #3 MWC team. I guess AFA or Nevada would be decent but certainly not ideal opponents.

Again, how is this year any different than any other BYU season? I know you dislike RN and you were fully invested in JH, but are you really going to let that ruin your excitement for BYU football?

For this year, yes my excitement has been damaged. For me it has been a perfect storm of football schedule, conference afiliation, off the field mess and also being very busy at work. I'm just not as excited about the season. It is what it is.

To answer your question, I can't think of a year where I felt more confident that I knew the outcome going into the season. For instance, going into the season last year, IIRC, I wasn't sure of the outcome of Ole Miss, Texas, Utah and UCF. I was farily certain we would lose to TCU but still had my hopes up we could pull it off. I think the newness of Indy was also exciting.

Joe Glenn salute or not - this season could be a blessing in disguise for you. Less of a roller coaster ride emotionally. Less of a crash from the steep fall. Just watch those two games. Surely none of the others will be close and interesting and full of drama. And surely there won't be any amazing plays to watch or personal achievements to follow.

Again - I expect 8-9 wins including the Bowl game - just like you do. Sucks to be you, because I expect to have a lot of fun watching it unfold and hoping for some miracle to give BYU that coveted 10 win season.

I hope Riley Nelson has a great season and makes you wallow in every minute of it - but I agree - something more ordinary is more likely.

No Heisman or anything resembling that. Just a guy from a small town playing his heart out for the Blue and White as the team continues to bounce back from 2010 and the first half of 2011.

I am shocked that you were more excited about that period in history - any student of the game not blinded by hype could have seen that coming and it was often not fun to watch.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I'm interested to know why you think I wouldnt want to watch all 13 games. I will. Decked out all in blue with my game day themed tailgate food for every game. I will watch the prevalence show, listen to the call in show after the games just like every year. I will cheer the highs and be bummed at the lows. Just maybe not as bummed as I would've been in years past

And as for who is for blame at hype from the past, look no further than coach mendenhall who said last years team at the end Of camp was the most prepared team he had ever had at that juncture in the year. If you recall, they ended camp quite a bit early, including a couple extra days off. But perhaps you mean to say that bronco and Brandon doman aren't students of the game.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

They missed it. Based on workout no shows - should have seen leadership and timing issues coming. Doman was new and Bronco admits knowing little about offense. A Student of the game could have seen the new coaches having growing pains too - and Heaps had some new stuff to absorb, but had skipped workouts.

If you try to enjoy this season - you will. Doman said the offense is moving the ball much better than 2011. Maybe Doman has learned how to spot a problem.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Cougarbib]

I for one will take a win at Utah State and a 10 win season over a loss and a non-bowl eligible team.

I would to. Glad they made the switch.

So we agree that Riley Nelson has proved himself beyond what Jake Heaps did.

Yes, in that ONE game, I would agree, but not necessarily overall. Their records seem pretty equal to me. Beat up crappy teams, lose to good teams.

You are either blinded by Jake's Porential - even now - or by needing to be right.

Jake LOST to teams BYU was favored to beat. More than once, actually. Almost lost to some others. Besting a crippled UTEP team hardly compares to beating a Tulsa team that, had only list to 4 Top 15 or so teams.

Blinded. Simply Blinded.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[frdbtr]

Heaps should have been benched before the season started, simply because he skipped all the summer workouts. Back on subject though, I agree that this season with this defense has the potential to be very fun. We will see if the quiet confident hype comes to fruition on the offenses side of the ball.