Thoughts on the Honor Code

[Wolverine]

Sorry to comment again. I did some cursory scanning of the first 12 pages of that article. It is filled with quotes and actual statements that seem to be inserted and directed so as to support the point the author wants to make. As a student, I was never aware of any of this. But it is blatently obvious that the author of this piece has a point to make and spares no effort to ensure that his point is well documented, no matter how much he twists and takes out of context.

I get the feeling that if someone once asked Joseph Smith how he was doing on a particular day and Joesph responded, "I feel very gay today," this author could write an article proving that Joseph was a homosexual.

I think your conclusion is incorrect. Are you aware of the fact that the Wilkinson quad was designed to make protests difficult to hold on campus, and easy to break up if they occurred at BYU? That's an interesting way to design a campus quad eh?

That said, I do not advocate large, out of control riotous student rally's. But, I do think Ernest Wilkinson over-reacted to events of his time - which have passed and gone.

I think it's interesting that you formed a strong opinion, and posted it prior to reading any of the article. Certainly the author had a point to make. Most authors do. I have no problem with an opinion if it is based on research, fact, and documentation. This article is heavily documented. In no way do I think the article denigrates Ernest Wilkinson. He was a fine man, who over-reacted.

I read the entire article and agree with you to a point on the author's intent and approach with regards to the article. I'm not sure I agree with your opinion that Pres. Wilkinson's methods were all about "over-reaction". I am more of the mind that it was along the lines of his core philosophical beliefs ingrained over 60 plus years caught in the crosswinds of a rapidly changing society that was chaotic at best. Many men of that generation were conflicted and concerned with the social and moral upheaval of the 60's and IMO their concerns on many levels have been validated over the past 50 years. With 50 years of hindsight and reflection, maybe Pres. Wilkinson would have approached things differently, but then again that would be the case for most of us with regards to most of the things we experience in life, and where would any of the fun and adventure be in that ?

[Schmoe]

There are many places where the LDS faithful are asked to go above and beyond the minimum, including missions, bishoprics and higher callings, and at church schools. I don't think that this is done by mere accident or coincidence, and I don't think it's hard to understand that there are things beyond the bare minimum that can lend themselves to creating a culture that is inviting to the spirit and edifying to others around you.

Could the honor code use a tweak every once in a while? Sure, but to only hold students to the most minimum standard would take away from the culture and feeling at BYU, which is important whether some would like to admit it or not.

[BoiseBYU]

Having an honor code is a wonderful thing. Making sure the honor code is the right one is quite another. There is nothing sacrosanct about the dress standards in the current honor code and they might stand for some review. How we enforce it might also stand some consideration. The last thing I want is for BYU to be known as being about free agency and how to enforce it. While we are talking honor codes, I've never understand why BYUI's honor code is stricter than BYU's, but it is. Thoughts on that?

[Cougarfan87]

Although I appreciate and understand the need for standards, I think BYU Pres. Ernest Wilkinson reacted with too heavy a hand.

Here's my hypothetical. Let's pretend Joseph Smith was the Prophet of the Church during Pres. Wilkinson's tenure. Given the exact came circumstances, Pres. Wilkinson sat down with Joseph Smith and proposed the Honor Code as he developed it - along with all the inquiries, penalties, and punishments.

During the conversation Joseph would have remind Pres. Wilkinson of the following principles:

“I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.”
and -
We should not, according to the scriptures, need to be commanded in all things. (D&C 58:25)

I personally do not think Joseph Smith would have implemented and enforced the Honor Code as Pres. Wilkinson did. IMHO.

And yet you can't be a bishop and have a beard today.

I don't think that is quite true. I knew a man who served as Bishop, and he had a goatee. I believe he has had it forever. Someone else (it may have been him) told me that his Stake President also had a full beard. As far as I can tell, the requirement to be clean shaven is an unspoken tradition, not a rule (certainly not in either handbook). This is similar to wearing white shirts on Sunday, and wearing a suit coat. I will say, I do feel somewhat compelled to be clean-shaven on Sundays, wear white shirts to church, and wear a suit coat, but I don't mind letting my whiskers grow out a few days during the week, mostly because it is a pain to shave.

I also think most on this board are in violent agreement that the honor code should remain. I don't think anyone is arguing we should do away with requirements to use clean language, be honest, keep the word of wisdom, dress modestly, and obey the law of chastity, etc. I would be extremely opposed to removing those requirements, because they are based on eternal gospel principles, not the changing of style over time. I wouldn't mind if they started allowing facial hair that is neat in appearance (meaning if you are going to try and pull a beard off, you have to be able to actually grow one--it shouldn't look like a partially deforested landscape). Of course, when you go to BYU, you agree to keep the honor code as it is written, not as you think it should be. I recall Elder Bednar once saying that when kids at BYU-Idaho would complain to him about the honor code, he would tell them they need to keep the commitment they were not forced to sign when they came there, or he would do all he could to help them transfer to another school. There is value in keeping our commitments, whether we think they are all necessary or not.

[nuk13]

I agree with the guy that said this should be in the lounge. I thought it was going to be about the suspended players.

During my stay at BYU it came to me that hair (at that time!) was easy to grow back and it didn't bother me much after that. Mine would go past my ears sometimes but I'd get it cut. I never have gotten much past 3 wks with a beard.

There absolutely should be a moral, church standard code. I just don't see now nor did I then see what hair or beards have to do with that. I too wondered how come many of the presidents and general authorities wore beards and then all of a sudden it became a sin. I remember a wealthy couple who I don't think were members, donated lots of $$$ to the school because we all looked clean cut to them. The drug and hippie movements, for the most part had long hair. Maybe that had something to do with it. I agreed and agree that mini skirts were wrong (but it was sad to see them go).

Pres. Wilkinson, while having much to be admired, seemed dictatorial to me. I don't know how popular he was. I did hear negatives about him. I liked Pres. Clark at Ricks more. He was more personable.

[Schmoe]

I too wondered how come many of the presidents and general authorities wore beards and then all of a sudden it became a sin.

With all due respect, I think strawman hyperbole like this detracts from the conversation.

[hawkwing]

I don't believe the argument that Brigham Young and other early leaders had a beard so BYU should allow them now is valid, unless you're also willing to go back to wearing ankle to wrist garments.

[Gunk]

The HC needs to be updated. Fine with modesty and standards that uphold such, but hair length, facial hair, piercings, etc. are not sins. If you are worthy to go to the temple, you should be able to attend BYU. As it stands now, I can go to the temple with a beard but could not attend BYU. Like it or not, the church is a bit fixated with the appearance of righteousness.

Case in point, I grew a beard at the beginning of the year. While in the temple I was asked whether I was a veil worker, a more senior temple worker came up and said, "Don't bother asking him. He can't work in the temple because he has a beard."

Think about that. A beard is hair, something my body naturally produces. I can't control the fact my body grows hair. Without the invention of razor blades I would have a foot long beard. A beard is not like a tattoo where someone makes a conscious decision to have. I can have a tattoo and be a temple worker but not have a beard. That doesn't makes sense.

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[HoosierCougar]

I had a Stake President on my mission with a full beard.

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[Mars]

I've never understand why BYUI's honor code is stricter than BYU's, but it is. Thoughts on that?

Easy: BYU-Idaho students are less righteous, so their rules must be more harsh.