Why the pass?

[hawkwing]

Is anyone going to mention that the Utes have turned their dumpster fire of a basketball team into a top 10 ranked team in just a few years, while we've out recruited them, yet remain a 12 seed, last 4 in team over that same period?

[Mars]

Maybe now that you know the definition of a trend, you can help us figure out how Bronco is trending over the past five years at 7-6, 10-3, 8-5, 8-5, 8-5. Now, I'm no math major, but if I graphed that out, and used the average rate of change, would that line be going in a downward direction, an upward direction, or basically straight?

Also, doesn't this whole ridiculous argument emphasize the point of this thread? Why aren't we arguing about Dave Rose? Isn't he trending down?

Well, the 2013 BYU football team had a worse Sagarin rating than 2012, and in 2014 BYU had a worse Sagarin rating than in 2013. So that is a 3-year trend of the program getting worse, with the high point being an 8-5 team led by Riley Nelson. And 2011 was the program's worst strength of schedule in about a decade.

In basketball, the program seems to be trending back up (to me) based on recent recruiting. We haven't reached the Jimmer/Davies levels yet, not even close, but the feeling is that the ability is there once all these young talented Top 300 kids start coming back from their missions. The talent pipeline is pretty well stocked for the foreseeable future.

[snoscythe]

Is anyone going to mention that the Utes have turned their dumpster fire of a basketball team into a top 10 ranked team in just a few years, while we've out recruited them, yet remain a 12 seed, last 4 in team over that same period?

Missions. BYU has out-recruited the U, but because of mission lag we won't see it on the court as quickly.

BYU did pretty well against Utah this season. A couple bounces go the other way in Maui and against the Utes, and we're looking at role reversals. Utah has only one good win, two if you count BYU--USC and UCLA are big names, but likely won't make the NIT this season. That's where BYU would be if those things bounce the other way earlier in the season.

[Schmoe]

So, trending in football is based on numbers, while trending in basketball is based on feelings about future recruits? Got it. (I won't mention that basketball's Sagarin rankings are much lower [20-30 spots lower] over the last three years than they have been since Rose's second year here.)

[Cougs_Rule]

Hilarious. So now a few of you are out to excoriate Rose as a means to defend Bronco and "level" the injustice?
Funny. Only problem is, Rose hasn't lost the confidence of some fans, media, some vocal past players, and some donors. Yes, football has much higher stakes and likely much more difficult. But don't forget that Roger Reid got ridden out of town. And Steve recognized his fading into obscurity and got out. So, don't act like the BYU basketball world is not exposed to many of the same challenges.
It does not appear that Bronco has maintained the confidence of some sectors of fans, media, some vocal past players and even some donors. It is unfortunate. I have not turned on Bronco (not that my vote or voice is never in play) but I have pointed out his weaknesses in the public for years. I fear it may have caught up with him this year. It is unfair and I hope he endures and doesn't take some of this heat personal. It is unfortunate for Bronco that he might be closer to a hot seat next year if he doesn't correct the "skid"--namely his defense--and ends up barely above .500. Because between his proneness toward taking things personal, having a chip on his shoulder, and losing ground with more fans, media, players, and donors, that kind of year might just be his undoing.

PS, Schmoe, your total disregard for Sabans best year in your original presentation of stats speaks so loudly, clearly you saw it as a threat to the case you were trying to make and so you took the chance that no one would bother to look up the data. Regardless, he finished with his best year and cashed in at LSU. So, apparently, real money/power players and real stakeholders would disagree with your assertion that Saban wasn't trending the right way. To suggest that a "trend" is constrained to simply win-loss metrics smacks of serious myopia. Again, I feel bad for Bronco for the normal challenges. But now, the very squeaky clean character of the program is as bloody and bruised as Nacuas face. Fortunately, his job security is based on a very clean program. He is absolutely is deserving of that and the spiritual and ambassadorial priorities are phenomenal; and surely he can't be blamed for the brawl.

[BroncoBot]

Doubled up this post.. my bad.

[BroncoBot]

BYU did pretty well against Utah this season. A couple bounces go the other way in Maui and against the Utes, and we're looking at role reversals. Utah has only one good win, two if you count BYU--USC and UCLA are big names, but likely won't make the NIT this season. That's where BYU would be if those things bounce the other way earlier in the season.

But hey, it's nothing that should cause any angst among fans, right? I mean, BYU had their chances, should have beat SDSU (who is looking worse and worse as the season goes on) and had their chances to beat a legit top ten team vs utah at home. No biggie.

On the other hand, BYU loses because of a missed FG at the end of regulation AT the u facing a utah team who had no business losing to BYU while playing a freshman QB (who has been an absolute bust since that freshman year) and heads should roll. Got it.

[BroncoBot]

Hilarious. So now a few of you are out to excoriate Rose as a means to defend Bronco and "level" the injustice?

I believe this is because of the perceived (sometimes glaringly obvious) double standards that are out there regarding football/basketball.

Basketball - defensive problems, tough losses, occasionally poor decision making down the stretch - everything is hunky dory. Just focus on the fact that BYU is number one in the nation in scoring and KC's awesome triple doubles. Who cares if we can't get a decent true pg!

Football - defensive problems, tough losses, occasionally poor decision making down the stretch- sky is falling and BYU sports will be axed by the end of the weekend unless BYU hires Nick Saban (or Whittingham, or Sitake) and replaces the playbook with quick slants and shovel passes and never even thinks about drawing up a QB run again. Unbelievable that Bronco can't recruit a kicker who hits 55 yard FGs with consistency!

[Cougs_Rule]

BYU did pretty well against Utah this season. A couple bounces go the other way in Maui and against the Utes, and we're looking at role reversals. Utah has only one good win, two if you count BYU--USC and UCLA are big names, but likely won't make the NIT this season. That's where BYU would be if those things bounce the other way earlier in the season.

But hey, it's nothing that should cause any angst among fans, right? I mean, BYU had their chances, should have beat SDSU (who is looking worse and worse as the season goes on) and had their chances to beat a legit top ten team vs utah at home. No biggie.

On the other hand, BYU loses because of a missed FG at the end of regulation AT the u facing a utah team who had no business losing to BYU and heads should roll. Got it.

Like it or not, some of you Bronco-ites forget what winning vs your rival for over five years will do for a coach. It certainly has helped Whitt keep his job. So, Rose has given up two close games to Utah after winning how many in a row, like eight. Dumb good luck I guess, to catch Utes during a bad "skid". But Guess what, if he loses four straight, it will matter. But even if he does, Rose still has endeared himself much better to the fans, media, and has a far better recruitment history/success for the next several years than Bronco does. Not to mention that a national player of the year and Jimmer mania has a much longer half-life than the dumb luck of "discovering" err, "developing" Ziggy.
Quote all the stats you want, but step back and ask yourself which coach over all the critical metrics to both the BoT and the big donors is trending the right way and which is not. Crap, even KVN questioned "what is going on" this past season after a horrible defensive showing. Poppinga may have called him "one of the best five coaches" anywhere, but wasn't that as his Defensive coordinator? Again, I think Bronco has gone away as a coach from what makes up at least 50% of his value. The other 50%, the values and spiritual are fairly secure, but even those have a black eye, that should heal.

[Cougs_Rule]

Hilarious. So now a few of you are out to excoriate Rose as a means to defend Bronco and "level" the injustice?

I believe this is because of the perceived (sometimes glaringly obvious) double standards that are out there regarding football/basketball.

Basketball - defensive problems, tough losses, occasionally poor decision making down the stretch - everything is hunky dory. Just focus on the fact that BYU is number one in the nation in scoring and KC's awesome triple doubles. Who cares if we can't get a decent true pg!

Football - defensive problems, tough losses, occasionally poor decision making down the stretch- sky is falling and BYU sports will be axed by the end of the weekend unless BYU hires Nick Saban (or Whittingham, or Sitake) and replaces the playbook with quick slants and shovel passes and never even thinks about drawing up a QB run again. Unbelievable that Bronco can't recruit a kicker who hits 55 yard FGs with consistency!

Yep. Its unfair. Maybe even twice as hard. Maybe even 2 million verses 1 million more difficult. Think about it.