CougarCorner

hawkwing wrote:

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote: I honestly prefer him to Carlino because KC looks to get others involved and Carlino has only ever cared about getting his own.

I think this may be a little harsh, although Carlino was a shoot-first kind of player (not usually what you want at the point).

I think there is a lot of projecting that goes on with the criticisms of Carlino. He gave no indication that he wasn't anything less than a team player while at BYU. He came off the bench when "demoted" and took it like a champ.

And unless KC keeps up his current assist average, Carlino currently holds the single season record for highest assist average. A guy "looking to get his own" doesn't dole out nearly 5 assists a game. Had we had more shooters last year other than Haws, Carlino would have averaged 6+ assists a game.

Jimmer on the other hand hardly passed the ball...

Jimmer took much smarter shots.

Same shots, Jimmer just made more!

BroncoBot wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote: I honestly prefer him to Carlino because KC looks to get others involved and Carlino has only ever cared about getting his own.

I think this may be a little harsh, although Carlino was a shoot-first kind of player (not usually what you want at the point).

I think there is a lot of projecting that goes on with the criticisms of Carlino. He gave no indication that he wasn't anything less than a team player while at BYU. He came off the bench when "demoted" and took it like a champ.

And unless KC keeps up his current assist average, Carlino currently holds the single season record for highest assist average. A guy "looking to get his own" doesn't dole out nearly 5 assists a game. Had we had more shooters last year other than Haws, Carlino would have averaged 6+ assists a game.

Jimmer on the other hand hardly passed the ball...

Jimmer took much smarter shots.

Same shots, Jimmer just made more!

If you're going to take Jimmer range shots, you better make them!

BroncoBot wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote: I honestly prefer him to Carlino because KC looks to get others involved and Carlino has only ever cared about getting his own.

I think this may be a little harsh, although Carlino was a shoot-first kind of player (not usually what you want at the point).

I think there is a lot of projecting that goes on with the criticisms of Carlino. He gave no indication that he wasn't anything less than a team player while at BYU. He came off the bench when "demoted" and took it like a champ.

And unless KC keeps up his current assist average, Carlino currently holds the single season record for highest assist average. A guy "looking to get his own" doesn't dole out nearly 5 assists a game. Had we had more shooters last year other than Haws, Carlino would have averaged 6+ assists a game.

Jimmer on the other hand hardly passed the ball...

Jimmer took much smarter shots.

Same shots, Jimmer just made more!

Then it's a smarter shot- right?

ABYUFAN wrote:

BroncoBot wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:

hawkwing wrote: I honestly prefer him to Carlino because KC looks to get others involved and Carlino has only ever cared about getting his own.

I think this may be a little harsh, although Carlino was a shoot-first kind of player (not usually what you want at the point).

I think there is a lot of projecting that goes on with the criticisms of Carlino. He gave no indication that he wasn't anything less than a team player while at BYU. He came off the bench when "demoted" and took it like a champ.

And unless KC keeps up his current assist average, Carlino currently holds the single season record for highest assist average. A guy "looking to get his own" doesn't dole out nearly 5 assists a game. Had we had more shooters last year other than Haws, Carlino would have averaged 6+ assists a game.

Jimmer on the other hand hardly passed the ball...

Jimmer took much smarter shots.

Same shots, Jimmer just made more!

Then it's a smarter shot- right?

sure, as long as you believe that every missed shot was a bad choice and every made shot was a good decision.

jimmer took plenty of bad shots, but winning is king (as it should be). jimmer won because he had the benefit of a much better supporting cast. besides haws, there wasn't a lot of offensive firepower while carlino was at byu. carlino didn't have an emery or a Davies or a hartsock later on, or even a Chris miles for that matter.

Missed shots mean you're selfish...made shots mean you're a team player.

Gunk wrote:Missed shots mean you're selfish...made shots mean you're a team player.

I don't think that's an unfair statement, even though you said it in jest.

Rather, if you have a high percentage of makes, taking the shot is not selfish, but if you have a low % it is.

Carlino's highest shot percentage year at BYU is equal with Jimmer's lowest (as a freshman), the same is true for 3-point percentage. But in those years, Jimmer shot 5.8 times a game (3.7 of those from three point land) while Carlino shot 10.5 times a game (4.6 of those from three point land). Not that either is necessarily bad, I just thought it might need a mention when comparing the two.

Schmoe wrote:Carlino's highest shot percentage year at BYU is equal with Jimmer's lowest (as a freshman), the same is true for 3-point percentage. But in those years, Jimmer shot 5.8 times a game (3.7 of those from three point land) while Carlino shot 10.5 times a game (4.6 of those from three point land). Not that either is necessarily bad, I just thought it might need a mention when comparing the two.

Jimmer's freshman year he was a team with Cummard and Plaisted. Two players that went on to play professional hoops. Tavernari was pretty solid that year as well. Cummard was MWC co-MVP at the time.

Carlino last season played with Haws (great player), Austin at center, a revolving door at the 2, and a 4 that fancies themselves a PG. Someone had to take shots other than Haws.

The idea Carlino took shots out of selfishness is ludicrous. Carlino also has Jimmer beat in just about every assists category and season standings.

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:Carlino's highest shot percentage year at BYU is equal with Jimmer's lowest (as a freshman), the same is true for 3-point percentage. But in those years, Jimmer shot 5.8 times a game (3.7 of those from three point land) while Carlino shot 10.5 times a game (4.6 of those from three point land). Not that either is necessarily bad, I just thought it might need a mention when comparing the two.

Jimmer's freshman year he was a team with Cummard and Plaisted. Two players that went on to play professional hoops. Tavernari was pretty solid that year as well. Cummard was MWC co-MVP at the time.

Carlino last season played with Haws (great player), Austin at center, a revolving door at the 2, and a 4 that fancies themselves a PG. Someone had to take shots other than Haws.

Did you conveniently or genuinely forget about Mika?

Also, Carlino took virtually twice as many threes as Haws, the second leading three shooter on the team, but had a 3pt% that was significantly lower than Haws and Winder, and lower than a couple other players on the team (I think maybe some of those long threes, and just threes early in the shot clock are the kinds of shots that some fans see as 'selfish'). Winder also seems like a solid 2 to me, and shot lights out last season so it doesn't seem like the 2 should have been a 'revolving door', but I guess that's on Coach Rose.

Schmoe wrote:

Gunk wrote:

Schmoe wrote:Carlino's highest shot percentage year at BYU is equal with Jimmer's lowest (as a freshman), the same is true for 3-point percentage. But in those years, Jimmer shot 5.8 times a game (3.7 of those from three point land) while Carlino shot 10.5 times a game (4.6 of those from three point land). Not that either is necessarily bad, I just thought it might need a mention when comparing the two.

Jimmer's freshman year he was a team with Cummard and Plaisted. Two players that went on to play professional hoops. Tavernari was pretty solid that year as well. Cummard was MWC co-MVP at the time.

Carlino last season played with Haws (great player), Austin at center, a revolving door at the 2, and a 4 that fancies themselves a PG. Someone had to take shots other than Haws.

Did you conveniently or genuinely forget about Mika?

Also, Carlino took virtually twice as many threes as Haws, the second leading three shooter on the team, but had a 3pt% that was significantly lower than Haws and Winder, and lower than a couple other players on the team (I think maybe some of those long threes, and just threes early in the shot clock are the kinds of shots that some fans see as 'selfish'). Winder also seems like a solid 2 to me, and shot lights out last season so it doesn't seem like the 2 should have been a 'revolving door', but I guess that's on Coach Rose.

I did forget about Mika. That said, Junior Trent Plaisted > Freshman Mika.

The offense did not flow through Mika like it did through Plaisted and Plaisted as a Junior constantly commanded double teams.

I agree the long 3s and early shot-clock shots are the shots fans point to as "selfish," but that's my point. Jimmer took the same exact shots. Only difference is Jimmer made them more. Meanwhile, Carlino has Jimmer beat in every assist stat, the only semi sure way to measure how "selfish" a player really is.

As I mentioned in a previous post, Rose preaches shooting in the shot clock early. He'd rather shoot early than risk turning the ball over. Can't fault Carlino for sticking to the game plan.