Boise State quarterback Finley arrested early Saturday

[Brayden Green]

So drinking is synonymous with killing people in war?

No, they are quite opposite from a legal perspective. You can kill people in other countries at the age of 19 or 20, as long as you put on the right uniform.

At 19 or 20 you can't drink a drop of alcohol.

I guess the main question, for me, is are you considered an adult in this countey at 18, or at 21? Because if the age is 21, then we shouldn't be sending our kids to die and kill one day earlier than 21. If it is 18, then leave them alone unless they are harming someone.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[snoscythe]

Actually, you can join the armed forces as early as 17 in the USofA.

[Brayden Green]

If we really want the law changed, then change it, otherwise, when you mis-step you pay the price and move on.

What makes you think congress, that can't even pass a fiscal year budget, would be capable of changing any law of import in this country? Lowering the drinking age will probably never be up for debate, the religious majority would never let it play out.

I think that the apropriate response is to not allow kids to enlist after the age of 21 then. Which will also never happen, because the military industrial complex needs its "soldiers" to get in the way of enemy bullets in countries that we police around the world... even if we consider them children while they are here at home.

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[Brayden Green]

Actually, you can join the armed forces as early as 17 in the USofA.

Good point. So they let children in even according to our own legal definitions... i didnt think about that. I think that is with a parents signature, isn't it? (Or in other cases, like if you have already emancipated yourself from your parents, and are considered an adult).

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[Schmoe]

This is an interesting discussion. I personally don't believe that one moment you are a child and the next you are an adult. I think it's a gradual process and that's why in our society there are steps (driving-16, military-17/18, smoking-18/19, drinking-21, renting a car-25, etc.). Not saying that the system is great, but I think there is a solid idea of human development behind it.

[Brayden Green]

This is an interesting discussion. I personally don't believe that one moment you are a child and the next you are an adult. I think it's a gradual process and that's why in our society there are steps (driving-16, military-17/18, smoking-18/19, drinking-21, renting a car-25, etc.). Not saying that the system is great, but I think there is a solid idea of human development behind it.

For sure. I agree in the theory, but probably not the placement of the items. Taking a life, even in war, does serious psychological damage. I think that the military does much more harm to the individual psyche than, say, drinking or gambling. Not to make light of the military. I respect their service, but... gambling and drinking are recreational activities (that can be used to excess, even people using them as tools for destroying their own lives). I don't see anything recreational about the military. Not that the military is evil, I believe it necessary. (I actually think it is the only part of our government that is absolutely necessary, meaning that there would be no way to get the services it provides by other means.) I just find the order of those items you listed to be interesting.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ABYUFAN]

This is an interesting discussion. I personally don't believe that one moment you are a child and the next you are an adult. I think it's a gradual process and that's why in our society there are steps (driving-16, military-17/18, smoking-18/19, drinking-21, renting a car-25, etc.). Not saying that the system is great, but I think there is a solid idea of human development behind it.

For sure. I agree in the theory, but probably not the placement of the items. Taking a life, even in war, does serious psychological damage. I think that the military does much more harm to the individual psyche than, say, drinking or gambling. Not to make light of the military. I respect their service, but... gambling and drinking are recreational activities (that can be used to excess, even people using them as tools for destroying their own lives). I don't see anything recreational about the military. Not that the military is evil, I believe it necessary. (I actually think it is the only part of our government that is absolutely necessary, meaning that there would be no way to get the services it provides by other means.) I just find the order of those items you listed to be interesting.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The military has an incredible support structure and provisions in place to transition young folks as best as possible from youth to adulthood. I get that your argument sounds loads better when you say "give them a uniform and a gun and have them kill people" But either we both know that this is laughably far from the truth, or you are a bit on the naive side. With respect to the consumption of alcohol (and even gambling), there are some areas of assistance that are usually offered after the vice has cause serious damage to the lives of those who use them. I believe that the Center for Disease Control has indicated that excessive alcohol use has lead to 88,000 deaths from 2006-2010That is only "deaths" Alcohol has moany more dangers than just deaths. Imagine how many more injuries and deaths that number would be by making the stuff legal to a segment of society that is known for it's lack of impulse control

[Brayden Green]

For sure. I agree in the theory, but probably not the placement of the items. Taking a life, even in war, does serious psychological damage. I think that the military does much more harm to the individual psyche than, say, drinking or gambling. Not to make light of the military. I respect their service, but... gambling and drinking are recreational activities (that can be used to excess, even people using them as tools for destroying their own lives). I don't see anything recreational about the military. Not that the military is evil, I believe it necessary. (I actually think it is the only part of our government that is absolutely necessary, meaning that there would be no way to get the services it provides by other means.) I just find the order of those items you listed to be interesting.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The military has an incredible support structure and provisions in place to transition young folks as best as possible from youth to adulthood. I get that your argument sounds loads better when you say "give them a uniform and a gun and have them kill people" But either we both know that this is laughably far from the truth, or you are a bit on the naive side.

Nice false dichotomy you set up there. So either we both agree with you, or I'm naive. Let's not pretend that the military is a charity operation, rescuing kids off the streets... the majority of the kids the military recruits come from broken homes, but the military doesn't do much at all to channel their agressive tendencies and hurt, and teach them maintenence (they teach them discipline by force, but that is different than discipline by choice, isn't it). The military gives them a weapon and uses that agression,gear snd hurt. And the military is among the worst at getting promised benefits to its members. If it were a private company, it would get an F by the Better Business Bureau. It does poorly with healthcare, mental care, promised tuition, etc. Ask anyone that gets military benefits.

Does the military turn lives around? Sure. Probably as many as it kills. But for the amount that we spend on the military, I'm thinking that if we put that money to other means the kids lives that it improves would be better improved with proper education, proper actual teatment, of systemic underlying hurt (instead of channeling that hurt and fear to their own purposes).

Imagine if we took half the money that we spend on the military and gave free counseling, and had a trades education program (for electrical, construction, engineering, manufacturing, technology, etc.). What kind of affect do you think Trillions of dollars targeted at those specific kids would have?

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, I don't think that the government should spend any money on education... I would like lower taxes for everyone (flat tax), but think about what our nation would be like if we didn't have a military presence in every part of the world, went back to 2002 levels of spending (we are about 15 times higher now) and we started helping our troubles youth, and had open school choice, etc.

The military is necessary but not at its current level, and it isn't necessary for ANY of our 17, 18, 19, and 20 year old kids. It doesn't do anything g for them that good outreach and technical education programs would do at one one-hundredth of the total cost.

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[SpiffCoug]

Actually, you can join the armed forces as early as 17 in the USofA.

yes, but the military can't send you overseas until you're 18. On my last deployment we had two soldiers who had to join us later, mid-tour, after their 18th birthday.

[ABYUFAN]

This is an interesting discussion. I personally don't believe that one moment you are a child and the next you are an adult. I think it's a gradual process and that's why in our society there are steps (driving-16, military-17/18, smoking-18/19, drinking-21, renting a car-25, etc.). Not saying that the system is great, but I think there is a solid idea of human development behind it.

For sure. I agree in the theory, but probably not the placement of the items. Taking a life, even in war, does serious psychological damage. I think that the military does much more harm to the individual psyche than, say, drinking or gambling. Not to make light of the military. I respect their service, but... gambling and drinking are recreational activities (that can be used to excess, even people using them as tools for destroying their own lives). I don't see anything recreational about the military. Not that the military is evil, I believe it necessary. (I actually think it is the only part of our government that is absolutely necessary, meaning that there would be no way to get the services it provides by other means.) I just find the order of those items you listed to be interesting.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

The military has an incredible support structure and provisions in place to transition young folks as best as possible from youth to adulthood. I get that your argument sounds loads better when you say "give them a uniform and a gun and have them kill people" But either we both know that this is laughably far from the truth, or you are a bit on the naive side. With respect to the consumption of alcohol (and even gambling), there are some areas of assistance that are usually offered after the vice has cause serious damage to the lives of those who use them. I believe that the Center for Disease Control has indicated that excessive alcohol use has lead to 88,000 deaths from 2006-2010That is only "deaths" Alcohol has moany more dangers than just deaths. Imagine how many more injuries and deaths that number would be by making the stuff legal to a segment of society that is known for it's lack of impulse control

I in no way meant to imply that the milatary is perfect. Far from it; however, you're the guy who equated drinking to joining the military, not me. I was just pointing out that drinking and joining the military are two very different things. As many faults as the military has it's not just giving a gy a uniform and a gun. But lowering the drinking age, as I understand to be the subject of your first post, is like slapping a beer in the hand of a teenager and telling him "good luck." Frankly a lot of luck would be needed for a significant segment of society if and when that ever hapens.