CougarCorner

hawkwing wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

hawkwing wrote:Wow, I guess it's a huge blessing we got out of the MWC when we did or we would have gone winless in that conference.

Sorry,but we dominated that conference. The reason we started getting bad recruits is because we had problems drawing talent to the WCC. It's a garbage conference. It really is. I like the respect of the teams, and that all are pretty upstanding, but as far as competition level and hype, the MWC was much better in its heyday, and there are dozens of other conferences that BYU basketball would be better suited in.

A garbage league that we have no business losing to the teams in, yet we lose 3 or more times each year to the worst of the worst.

All we needed to do was land Loveridge. He was the power forward that we needed for the last 2-3 years. It for dang sure wasn't Austin or Charles Abuou. When recruits don't want to come to your program because of the crappy league it is in, all your players need to adhere to one of the most stringent code of ethics, and top and even mid tier talent of your recruiting pool are looking at the school up north that just got invited to one of the better leagues in the country combined with the fact that they haven't even heard of your league, ... It is one of those chicken egg situations...

yeah, that might be a problem. Then, throw in the fact that your coach has cancer, struggled mightily one season, and then just a few short years later has not one, but two major assistant head coaches hired from the program... that could explain some of the "bad" losses you are talking about.

If Seljaas is healthy we aren't even talking about dropping the last few games. Seljaas is probably the best player on the floor (not named Emery). His scoring off the bench has been huge for us.

Brayden Green wrote: All we needed to do was land Loveridge. He was the power forward that we needed for the last 2-3 years.

The guy BYU is missing is another player who likes to camp out on the 3-pt line and take a lot of them?

He's taken 195 FGA this year. 137 of them have been 3s. He's not what BYU needs this year.

He has 92 rebounds this year in 731 minutes. Kaufusi has 92 in 376 minutes. So he wouldn't be helping on the rebound either.

He has 3 blocks. Which is one fewer than Chatman. So he wouldn't be helping on the defensive end either.

Sorry, but Loveridge, while a miss for BYU, wasn't a must-get for Rose and company.

What BYU needs isn't another 4 * kid, it needs a scheme that can win consistently. BYU has had the talent every year to beat the bottom feeders of the WCC, that's an undeniable fact. What they've lacked is the consistency to do so. That inconsistency comes from a poor scheme.

Can we dispel this notion that BYU's recruiting has gotten worse in the WCC?

Currently, we're ranked by ESPN w/ the 30th best class. Here are previous class ranks:
2014-15 WCC: outside Top 40 on ESPN
2013-14 WCC: 24th on ESPN
2012-13 WCC: 13th on ESPN
2011-12 WCC: 14th on ESPN
2010-11 MWC: outside top 25 on ESPN
2009-10 MWC: outside top 25 on ESPN
2008-09 MWC: outside top 25 on ESPN

Some more thoughts.

I don't know who's making excuses for the losses. Some sound reasons are being presented, but no one seems to be excusing or dismissing the losses. I think we all pretty much agree BYU hoops has taken a dive as of late. We shouldn't lose to the likes of Pepperdine or Portland.

Case in point, Air Force, which was probably the lowliest team in the MWC has done more on a national level in the last ten years than the 4th best WCC team. Think about that for a second. These low-level WCC teams never peak. They don't even catch lightning in a bottle. Yet, we're losing to them.

BYU went the last two seasons without a post player. Recruiting guards and shooting forwards may have been good but bad post play has killed us, not that Rose had a lot to work with anyway (there's only so many talented 6'10" LDS hoops players). How can he sell BYU and the WCC when there's a Pac12 school 45 min north. I do think his health affected things more than we know, and with Rice leaving, he was relying on newbie assistances to sell the dream.

Rose has a 3-4 years with a sold core. He needs to go deep in the tourney, otherwise, recruiting will slip and likely permanently. You can sell a "rebuild" only so many times.

In the meantime, he needs to get control of this team. Player egos need to become a thing of the past and a scheme needs to be instilled and stuck to. There can't be any half-hearted effort. Players not playing within the system or slacking off need to sit on the bench.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I think it's disingenuous also to say that "even Gonzaga loses these games." According to Greg Wrubell, since BYU has been in the WCC, we've lost 13 games in-conference to teams not named Gonzaga and St. Mary's, while Gonzaga has only lost two games to teams not named BYU and St. Mary's.

SpiffCoug wrote:

Brayden Green wrote: All we needed to do was land Loveridge. He was the power forward that we needed for the last 2-3 years.

The guy BYU is missing is another player who likes to camp out on the 3-pt line and take a lot of them?

He's taken 195 FGA this year. 137 of them have been 3s. He's not what BYU needs this year.

He has 92 rebounds this year in 731 minutes. Kaufusi has 92 in 376 minutes. So he wouldn't be helping on the rebound either.

He has 3 blocks. Which is one fewer than Chatman. So he wouldn't be helping on the defensive end either.

Sorry, but Loveridge, while a miss for BYU, wasn't a must-get for Rose and company.

Utah doesn't use or need him down low because they have a large amount of big talent. We don't. We are playing Nate Austin large minutes for the last 3 years. That wouldn't have happened with Loveridge here. He would have been more of a post presence and would have been great for us. He wanted to go north where he would get more bang for his buck instead of going to the crappy WCC.

Fortunately JImmer came on, Hartsock and Haws followed, and we have picked up recruiting. But it did dip, drastically so, the year we announced and our first year in the league. We relied on JC transfers and warm bodies that haven't worked out (Ambrosino, Bronson Kaufusi, others) down low, and it didn't work out. Once Davies and Hartsock were gone there was a huge hole in the middle. Loveridge would have filled that. That's all I am saying. We missed out on him because of the WCC. That is fact.

In the meantime, he needs to get control of this team. Player egos need to become a thing of the past and a scheme needs to be instilled and stuck to. There can't be any half-hearted effort. Players not playing within the system or slacking off need to sit on the bench.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ] [/quote]

This is a sound analysis Gunk. Trying to score a lot of points from 3 pt land and triple doubles isn't near as important as winning. I'm not against those things but I am if team ball could have won the game.

Brayden Green wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:

Brayden Green wrote: All we needed to do was land Loveridge. He was the power forward that we needed for the last 2-3 years.

The guy BYU is missing is another player who likes to camp out on the 3-pt line and take a lot of them?

He's taken 195 FGA this year. 137 of them have been 3s. He's not what BYU needs this year.

He has 92 rebounds this year in 731 minutes. Kaufusi has 92 in 376 minutes. So he wouldn't be helping on the rebound either.

He has 3 blocks. Which is one fewer than Chatman. So he wouldn't be helping on the defensive end either.

Sorry, but Loveridge, while a miss for BYU, wasn't a must-get for Rose and company.

Utah doesn't use or need him down low because they have a large amount of big talent. We don't. We are playing Nate Austin large minutes for the last 3 years. That wouldn't have happened with Loveridge here. He would have been more of a post presence and would have been great for us. He wanted to go north where he would get more bang for his buck instead of going to the crappy WCC.

Fortunately JImmer came on, Hartsock and Haws followed, and we have picked up recruiting. But it did dip, drastically so, the year we announced and our first year in the league. We relied on JC transfers and warm bodies that haven't worked out (Ambrosino, Bronson Kaufusi, others) down low, and it didn't work out. Once Davies and Hartsock were gone there was a huge hole in the middle. Loveridge would have filled that. That's all I am saying. We missed out on him because of the WCC. That is fact.

What facts are there to confirm your statement that Loveridge didn't come to BYU because of their WCC affiliation?

BYULV wrote:

Brayden Green wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:

Brayden Green wrote: All we needed to do was land Loveridge. He was the power forward that we needed for the last 2-3 years.

The guy BYU is missing is another player who likes to camp out on the 3-pt line and take a lot of them?

He's taken 195 FGA this year. 137 of them have been 3s. He's not what BYU needs this year.

He has 92 rebounds this year in 731 minutes. Kaufusi has 92 in 376 minutes. So he wouldn't be helping on the rebound either.

He has 3 blocks. Which is one fewer than Chatman. So he wouldn't be helping on the defensive end either.

Sorry, but Loveridge, while a miss for BYU, wasn't a must-get for Rose and company.

Utah doesn't use or need him down low because they have a large amount of big talent. We don't. We are playing Nate Austin large minutes for the last 3 years. That wouldn't have happened with Loveridge here. He would have been more of a post presence and would have been great for us. He wanted to go north where he would get more bang for his buck instead of going to the crappy WCC.

Fortunately JImmer came on, Hartsock and Haws followed, and we have picked up recruiting. But it did dip, drastically so, the year we announced and our first year in the league. We relied on JC transfers and warm bodies that haven't worked out (Ambrosino, Bronson Kaufusi, others) down low, and it didn't work out. Once Davies and Hartsock were gone there was a huge hole in the middle. Loveridge would have filled that. That's all I am saying. We missed out on him because of the WCC. That is fact.

What facts are there to confirm your statement that Loveridge didn't come to BYU because of their WCC affiliation?

It's not like he would have come had we been in the MWC...