CougarCorner

What if BYU's Honor Code became an "on your honor" system and the Honor Code office was completely done away with?

I love the standards that the Church has but in the "real world" it's up to us to confess our sins and repent. My bishop doesn't have his counselors or any minions out tracking me to make sure that I live up to my covenants or to make sure that I'm following the Word of Wisdom correctly (or at least I hope not!! )

I get that at BYU the Honor Code should be an known thing that the students are signing up for, but what do you think? If it's an on your honor self-policed thing, is that good or bad in your opinion? Would too many student athletes (or any student) take advantage of it and give BYU a "bad name" or make the school look hypocritical? Would BYU still be the #1 stone cold sober school if the Honor Code became on your honor? It's not just that I don't want key players having to sit out a year. If they mess up and that's the consequence then I'm fine. Part of me just thinks that we should be able to govern ourselves.

Joseph Smith once said “I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.” The same should be said for BYU, but the HCO sure doesn't think so

It's worked wonders for Baylor.

Some quick thoughts. I had a personal experience at the BYU honor code office while I was a student. In addition, from both personal and professional perspectives I have recently been privy to the details of several honor code cases including cases for non-atheletes and for athletes. Some simple take home messages from my (somewhat limited) experiences.

1. The welfare of the student is of the highest priority throughout the process.
2.The honor code office is surprisingly lenient on athletes and non-athletes alike. They do try to give chances for improvement and "repentance".
3. Serious sanctions come when the student has used up several chances, or otherwise clearly demonstrates that they are uninterested in changing their behavior.
4. The story the student tells to people who aren't "in the know" about what led to their disciplinary outcome is not usually complete and is often not even close to what really happened.

The challenge with all of this is that for every student who is enrolled at BYU and repeatedly shows a lack of interest in following the standards there are 10-15 kids who want that spot and would follow the standards. Sometimes we forget how many people wish they could get a quality education at the BYU price. It is quite the deal.

Edit: I am not saying the honor code office is perfect, or even close to as good as they could be and doing what they are charged to do. Just providing some perspective from my experiences. And- athletes get fewer chances and stricter consequences due to public impact of their violations. Just a fact.

I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

snoscythe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

Agreed. Just have to figure out how to do that for non-LDS students.

pikoi wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:06 pm

snoscythe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

Agreed. Just have to figure out how to do that for non-LDS students.

The same way they get their ecclesiastical endorsements now--from their local non-lds ecclesiastical leader, or from the BYU chaplain.

snoscythe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

Yes!!

byufan4ever wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:38 pm

snoscythe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

Yes!!

I disagree. I think it would lead to wildly inconsistent results. You'd have some push-over bishops who would let anything go because they are football players, and other super strict hardline guys who would revoke endorsements because they showed up with 5 day growth on Sunday.

hawkwing wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:51 pm

byufan4ever wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:38 pm

snoscythe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:04 pm I've always thought that the Ecclesiastical Endorsement should be it for the "Honor Code"/moral behavior stuff. It's all between you and your ecclesiastical endorser.

You can deal with cheating and criminal acts through the Dean of Students, Title IX, and Campus Police offices.

Yes!!

I disagree. I think it would lead to wildly inconsistent results. You'd have some push-over bishops who would let anything go because they are football players, and other super strict hardline guys who would revoke endorsements because they showed up with 5 day growth on Sunday.

Ugh. Yeah. That would be a mess for the students, for BYU and for the church.