Unga wants to come back!!

[Lawboy]

Hope we see him v. UW in September.

[bigbluepuma]

I just want to bring up one thing for discussion. Does anyone know if Harvey has gone through the temple? If not, the process for receiving his ecclesiastical endorsement could be much different than for someone who had when sexual sin was committed. BigCougFan, I assume that you had when your process began. My understanding is that as a general rule, tehre is a year process when sexual sin is committed for endowed members. I have not gone through it myself, but have had a family member who did, and they had been through the temple as well. It was a year process.

And for anyone who thinks it does not matter, and that if Harvey had not been endowed, but should be treated the same as someone who had been endowed, I disagree with you 100%. With the endowment comes sacred covenants and a higher standard. It does matter when that is violated and the consequences should be more severe for temple endowed members who commit sexual sin than those who do not.

Simply put, if Harvey has not been endowed, I expect his process to be different and shorter.

You are absolutely right. I have served in a bishopric and as a high councilor, so I have a little bit of education on the subject. There is a great deal of emphisis placed on being endowed, specifically having entered into the covenants of the endowment. The church takes breaking those covenants very seriously, and a bishop has much more stringent guidelines in those cases.

[Short_Change]

The Bishopric and High counselor have a lot of leeway and pretty much will decide what happens (of course by following the spirit). Someone I know had premarital relations while at byu and they spoke with their bishop and was never expelled from byu. They had never been endowed and that was a big thing. They were just put on probation essentially for about 9 months. The time period can always be shortened or lengthened due to the behavior of the person. Every situation is very different. Anything can happen at this point.

[Italics]

If he didn't love BYU or want to be here and live the Honor Code he had every opportunity to leave the last couple of years.

Exactly. This kid didn't want to flip off the team to enter the supplemental NFL draft. Obviously his withdrawal was a reluctant one. Hope we see him again in September. Why keep a repentant kid out when you can take him back?

Would he have been as motivated to admit his transgressions and to take proactive steps towards repentance if the HC wasn't in place? I honestly don't think so. .

I don't agree with you, but who knows. I'm not going to speculate how much of a desire Harvey Unga feels to repent when he sins. I know little to nothing about him.

[Italics]

If he didn't love BYU or want to be here and live the Honor Code he had every opportunity to leave the last couple of years.

Exactly. This kid didn't want to flip off the team to enter the supplemental NFL draft. Obviously his withdrawal was a reluctant one. Hope we see him again in September. Why keep a repentant kid out when you can take him back?

Citation for the fact that withdrawing was reluctant? I've heard proactive, but proactive is not a synonym for reluctant.

The fact that he shows great passion and love for BYU.
The fact he has stayed at BYU for all of his education.
The fact that he put off the NFL to play his senior year at BYU.
The fact the "happened" to withdraw around the time of breaking the HC.
The fact he is "desperate" to come back to BYU.

I don't know, I guess it all just gives me a hunch that Harvey must've been reluctant to leave BYU. But you're probably right, or at least all of the evidence would suggest so.

[Mars]

Briefly: I was afraid for the worst with Harvey's case when I was speculating. But it turns out that he has acted and is acting completely honorably in how he is dealing with his situation. I think things may turn out very good for him yet in his life, regardless of what the readmissions office decides. I'm a bigger Unga fan now than ever.

[imuakahuku]

I have seen a non-endowed man excommunicated for fornication, and I have seen an endowed memeber not excommunicated for fornication (he married her, has three kids and have been happily married for 22 years-and I don't see them ever splitting). So it is definitely a case by case situation. The Bishop will use the Spirit of Disernment to determine the truthfulness and level of repentance of the individual and then make a judgement.
I do agree that they take the sin of the "endowed" member much more seriously then the non-endowed member which I 100% agree with. I don't know Harvey, I do know a lot of the Unga clan and they fall on both sides (right and wrong), but I will say that I have yet to meet an Unga that is not always sincere in their actions.

[Schmoe]

Briefly: I was afraid for the worst with Harvey's case when I was speculating. But it turns out that he has acted and is acting completely honorably in how he is dealing with his situation. I think things may turn out very good for him yet in his life, regardless of what the readmissions office decides. I'm a bigger Unga fan now than ever.

See, you gotta assume the best about people

[jonnylingo]

This discussion is ridiculous. ITS A CASE BY CASES BASIS. Bishops allow the spirit to be their guide. all the factors mentioned are taken into account and then the bishop with the help of the spirit and sometimes others makes the decision.

We don't know what will happen with harvey because we are not privy to the specific facts of his case. Why waste our time on this message board speculating about such sacred and personal things that we are not privy to.

[urroner]

This discussion is ridiculous. ITS A CASE BY CASES BASIS. Bishops allow the spirit to be their guide. all the factors mentioned are taken into account and then the bishop with the help of the spirit and sometimes others makes the decision.

We don't know what will happen with harvey because we are not privy to the specific facts of his case. Why waste our time on this message board speculating about such sacred and personal things that we are not privy to.

Who cares about what happens to Harvey here other than when it comes to BYU and football. If there is Church discipline involved or not, why should it concern us?

If he doesn't return to BYU football, thanks for the memories Harvey and great luck.

If he returns to BYU, thanks Harvey for another great year of football.

I'd like to see him come back, but if he doesn't, I really do wish him the best in every way and I'll let it go at that.

Can we please stop worrying about Harvey and his spirituality. If you really want to talk about that, take it to the SL Tribune.