The Leadership Factor

[snoscythe]

Logan at no point said he trusted Heaps over Nelson...

Jay Drew (who was there when Bronco made the comments) agrees that Bronco was saying Nelson had the edge on leadership...

All of your quotes have done nothing to show that Heaps has a leadership edge.

1- Do you think Logan views Heaps and Nelson as equals? Because that's an almost impossible conclusion:
"The players... are starting to see one player emerge. Senior Brian Logan... has defended against each of the quarterbacks so far in spring practice, and he said Heaps is starting to separate himself from the pack. "I'm really impressed with Jake and his arm, accuracy and just his decision making," Logan said. "Now I understand why he was the No. 1 quarterback coming out (of high school). And it shows. I'm just excited he's on our team." ...what is it that is so impressive about the true freshman? "I think just his poise," Logan said. "He doesn't seem like a freshman at all. He seems 10 steps above the game, maybe that he's a junior or a senior. He doesn't carry himself like he's a freshman, and I think that's what makes him stand out." ...for a prediction on who will eventually be named the starter, Logan tried to stay diplomatic. "I'm not too sure yet, but I would just say that Jake stands out to me the most," Logan said. "I think his poise and his attitude make him stand out."
Logan is seeing Heaps emerge. Logan said Heaps is seperating himself from the others. He says Heaps is a legitimate #1 (which Nelson isn't). Heaps seems 10 steps ahead of the game (what is Riley, 5?). While Nelson is a sophomore, Heaps seems like a Junior or Senior. Heaps stands out for not seeming like a freshman- does Nelson? Heaps stands out the most, more than Riley. He has more poise and attitue.

2- Jay Drew asked Bronco point-blank if Heaps hadn't proven that he passed Nelson already. Bronco hedged, saying, well, Nelson has "grit". Which Jay Drew said made him laugh out loud. He says it's obvious that Heaps is the better QB. And Bronco says Heaps is an "excellent leader" and has all of the leadership skills necesary to start for BYU against Washington on opening day. And when Bronco says "it's not that Nelson isn't good, but man does Jake have poise and confidence!", that's like saying "I'm not being rude, but you're ugly." It's still rude- The denial actually acts as proof.

3- And you have at NO POINT shown anything that remotely suggests that coaches think Nelson has the leadership edge. So if you want to boil this entire thread down to "the coaches said nothing", well that's a waste. I've shown so much more than that to support my position. This whole thing has been a one-sided affair up to this point (kind of like... spring practice for Jake).

4- Nelson's best days were his senior year of high school, while Heaps' entire career has been building him to this point to lead BYU's football team:
""Heaps... is the only one of the three who has played consecutive seasons, albeit a prep schedule. It shows in his mastery of fundamentals, reading coverages and his comfort level... In BYU's current camp, that's the most glaring difference between Heaps and the other guys: his training. Heaps has worked with Greg Barton in Oregon since the fifth grade, perfecting his footwork, delivery and skill sets. He even devoured flash cards for deciphering cover two, cover three and other pass defenses while in elementary school. Barton's other pupils include Boise State's Kellen Moore, former Cal and current Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers and Tennessee's Eric Ainge. It is little wonder Heaps earned MVP honors at the Elite Eleven camp this past summer in California."
Nelson is rusty, less talented, less confident, less poised. And he doesn't share the same desire Heaps does. Riley would just be happy gaining his degree? You think Heaps would be happy with that? Heaps is the guy a team and an offense can rally behind. Nelson can hand the ball off.

5- Why the "leadership" debate in the first place? What does "leadership" matter in the QB competition if along with a slight possible "leadership" advantage comes less talent, a weaker arm, less first downs, less TDs, and more punts? Because that's part of the same Riley Nelson package, and it's impossible to ignore. He's not starter material right now, not with Heaps at BYU. Who is the bigger leader, the starter or the guy on the bench? The guy on the bench is more of a cheerleader than anything else, and I think Nelson, like Gaskins before him, can excel in that role.

Mars--the topic is leadership. If you want to talk about all the other stuff, there are plenty of threads elsewhere. Keep it on topic.

Your #1 isn't on topic. Logan at no point mentioned anything to do with leadership unless you are straining to interpret "poise" as leadership.

Your #2 goes against what Drew actually said: "In other words, Mendenhall is saying that sheer numbers alone won’t be used to determine a winner in the quarterback sweepstakes. Intangibles such as leadership and experience are going to be considered as well. In that regard, Nelson holds the edge." Drew also never said that comment made him laugh, much less laugh out loud. Again--the issue on this thread is leadership....if you aren't going to address the topic, don't bother responding.

#3--Yes I have--Bronco's words and Drew's first-hand interpretation that backs up my interpretation. As for your claim that you have shown so much more than that--again you mistake your talent arguments for leadership. You haven't shown a single thing other than a DB talking about poise, and that after you claimed the WRs were talking about trust. You've promised a lot, but you haven't really delivered anything.

#4--Your first assertion is garbage--Heaps best days were in high school as well at this point. Can I compare my fantasy future for Nelson to what Heaps hasn't done yet and declare victory? Because that's what you are trying to do there. You can do better than that. At least give your strawman some girth. As for the rest of it, all of that is well and good, but I'm not sure how all of that tutoring/book learning translates to leadership. Ryan Leaf was an immensely talented fellow who could read any defense like it was put on the field by Dr. Seuss.....but he was a horrible leader. I'm not saying Heaps is a horrible leader, but I do question his leadership after the attitude he arrived at camp with. Leaders don't show up late to voluntary workouts and pick and choose what they will do. They get there early, they do it all, and they leave late. Heaps is doing that now, but it took a bit of encouragement from some Olinemen to get him to that point. As for your newest assertion about Nelson just being happy with a degree, what you call a lack of desire, I call humility. I trust Bronco's assessment of his "grit, determination, and leadership."

#5--because the coaches disagree with your conclusion--they acknowledge that it is a tight, neck-and-neck race, and with gutting of the leadership core from last season (Pitta, Hall, Unga, Tonga), there is a real need for leadership on offense this season. I'm not saying leadership is going to be the deciding factor, but it is going to have some real sway in the decision matrix.

[Mars]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


The leadership on this year's offense comes from the offensive line. That's why Max Hall gave up more sacks as a senior than he did his first year starting. That's why Bronco took them golfing with him. Heaps will be fine behind his blockers. Not to mention Jacobsen, Chambers, Ashworth, Hafoka, DiLuigi, and Kariya. Cade Cooper wasn't the starter in 2007 just because Jonny Harline and Curtis Brown were gone. Same situation this year.

[snoscythe]

Cade Cooper wasn't the starter in 2007 just because Jonny Harline and Curtis Brown were gone. Same situation this year.

Yeah...it was because he broke his foot. Nice try with the non-sequitor though.

The leadership on this year's offense comes from the offensive line. That's why Max Hall gave up more sacks as a senior than he did his first year starting. That's why Bronco took them golfing with him.

Well, if who he takes golfing shows who the leaders are, Riley has it locked up since Bronco took him golfing in the first charity tournament and left Heaps at home: http://blogs.sltrib.com/byu/index.php?p ... &tb=1&pb=1

If your golf theory had any merit, Matt Reynolds would have been in the group (he wasn't), but I'll look forward to seeing Dalin Tollestrup calling coin tosses in September.

[Mars]

Yeah... it was because he broke his foot. Nice try with the non-sequitor though.

He wasn't the starter when he break his foot either, since you don't seem to remember 3 years ago. His back-up experience or leadership didn't seem to matter much to Bronco/Doman/Anae compared to Max Hall's talent. Stick to the subject please.

[Florwood]

Any way to block Sno and Mars just when they're responding to each other? Any other time, they're both the best as posters.