Eliminating Teacher Tenure, Good idea or bad idea?

[Brayden Green]

And by the way, if you want to see where our healthcare system is headed, look no further than public schools...

Those that would be great at being teachers/doctors won't do it, because they have the brains to see that 4+ yrs of college to barely scrape a living doesn't add up.

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[Schmoe]

Those that would be great at being teachers/doctors won't do it, because they have the brains to see that 4+ yrs of college to barely scrape a living doesn't add up.

Hey, what are you saying about my teaching!? I kid, we are lucky enough to have that good teacher here and there because they really want to make a difference in student's lives, but add another 4-8 years of school and you'll find almost no one willing to make that sacrifice to be a government doctor.

[Brayden Green]

Those that would be great at being teachers/doctors won't do it, because they have the brains to see that 4 yrs of college to barely scrape a living doesn't add up.

Hey, what are you saying about my teaching!? I kid, we are lucky enough to have that good teacher here and there because they really want to make a difference in student's lives, but add another 4-8 years of school and you'll find almost no one willing to make that sacrifice to be a government doctor.

No offense

I'm just saying that teaching (and police work) miss out on a lot of people that have a great disposition and the right skill sets, because they can't swallow 40k starting out after 4 years of college.

There are the diamonds in the rough like you Schmoe, that do it for the right reasons, and walk the tightrope across all the wrong ones.

[Schmoe]

I'm just saying that teaching (and police work) miss out on a lot of people that have a great disposition and the right skill sets, because they can't swallow 40k starting out after 4 years of college.

40K? I wish! I'll be happy to get anything above 30K my first three years. And I totally agree with you, I'm in my final semester and I've asked myself many times if making as much as a part-time truck driver is really worth all the work that I've put in, and I can't see anyone lasting through med school if they've got similar compensation in their future.

[vancouvercougar]

My wife is a teacher. She is frustrated by teachers who do a poor job. She replaced a teacher who was fired in the middle of the school year (and the teacher was tenured) The principal made a good case why the teacher needed to go. Another teacher was "forced" into an early retirement last year. So even with tenure we can get rid of really bad teachers--there simply needs to be a good reason.

I've always said we don't need better teachers--we need better parents. My wife taught a class of 25 kindergartners in Portland, and 5 of the children had dads in jail.

[nuk13]

I've taught for a number of years. A few years ago I retired from full time teaching because of ieps (tooooooo much government!). I now substitute because I still love it. It is a joy to me to run into students.

I worked in a school that got rid of 3 tenured teachers. They weren't fired just pushed till they left. Obviously it can be done. There was a bad atmosphere in our school for that year.

I never felt underpaid but I was single and have been frugal all my life. I had no debt and therefore was able to retire early (and read cougarcorner). I was and am aware that the $$$ comes from tax payers. Is there waste in education? Not too much. Is there a waste in the system? A huge amount. I work in a district that has a superintendent, an assistant sup. and a deputy sup. There is probably $300,000 going to them. Then there are the "experts" running around the district that are not teaching kids, all of whom are counted in the teacher/student ratio. Some of them serve well but it needs to be looked at.

One thing that could help in education is putting more discipline in the schools. Too much of the time if a case makes it to court the judge says the kid has a right to do the activity being reviewed. The problem is, the judge isn't there in school. The teachers and principle have to deal with the kid and her/his parents.
Another thing; people in other jobs where unions are involved may be just as hard to fire as teachers.

People in other jobs where unions are involved may be just as hard to fire as teachers.

How do you discern a good teacher? After all the years I am still not sure. I think there's a lot of ways to be a good teacher but only a few ways to objectively determine it. You can have kids not like you but be teaching truths. You can have the kids like you but not be teaching too much. To me the best teachers love their kids and the kids love them and, being prepared, the teacher imparts to them many truths about many things including things few tests will ever reveal.

[Sammich]

I never felt underpaid but I was single and have been frugal all my life. I had no debt and therefore was able to retire early (and read cougarcorner). I was and am aware that the $$$ comes from tax payers. Is there waste in education? Not too much. Is there a waste in the system? A huge amount. I work in a district that has a superintendent, an assistant sup. and a deputy sup. There is probably $300,000 going to them. Then there are the "experts" running around the district that are not teaching kids, all of whom are counted in the teacher/student ratio. Some of them serve well but it needs to be looked at.

This is the thing I hate most about the public education system. I can't think of a single positive thing that comes from school districts, other than shared bus systems. Is there really no other way to coordinate bus systems than to hire 3 idiot bureaucrats?

[CougarClaw]

In NJ, those "idiot bureacrats' were actually quite intelligent.

And what I mean by that, is that they'd collect their 5-6 digit salaries for 'coordinating bus systems' and then take 1 or 2 other jobs at the same time. All government posts too!

see? they're not dumb!

[Schmoe]

Most teachers aren't bad and try very hard to do a difficult (and getting even more difficult) job. However, if we want things to change teachers will have to give up some security. Pay ok teachers less, even if they've been there a long time, pay good teachers well, regardless of their experience, and fire bad teachers.

[Brayden Green]

Most teachers aren't bad and try very hard to do a difficult (and getting even more difficult) job. However, if we want things to change teachers will have to give up some security. Pay ok teachers less, even if they've been there a long time, pay good teachers well, regardless of their experience, and fire bad teachers.

Exactly. If our school systems were run like a business, things would be a lot different.

I hate people saying "Teachers don't get paid jack! blah blah blah" because some teachers get paid well over what they deserve. And my gut feeling is they are way over the average here.

The problem is, GOOD teachers don't get paid what THEY are worth. You would probably know the statistics better Nuk, but my guess is that for every one good teacher that stays late to grade papers/specializes in stuff during the summer/etc, there are 5 or 10 or 20 who don't. Pay that teacher 10-20 grand more a year, and give him/her 5 more students. Or 30 grand more, 10-15 more students, and a TA (obviously while getting rid of a couple salaries, both teaching and administrative).

Everyone is so concerned about "class sizes" when we have sucky teachers teaching our kids. I'd rather have the sizes be at 40 with a good teacher than 30 with one that just coasts through life.