America /= US government

[jvquarterback]

Well the mods are a little quick with the trigger and the rest of the sheep keep baaing so here is the breakdown of how the original thread went.

This just in poster BoiseBYU criticizes recent Chinese military developments and jvquarterback criticizes 60 years worth of US military developments. Jvquarterback gets labeled anti-american, a liar, etc, etc. The liar issues are easily resolved as jvquarterback has the truth on his side, but the unamerican label persists.

Well criticism of the government isn't unamerican, it is the same thing the founding fathers did so it is very American. But there are more state worshiping posters out there than I can keep up with as they keep posting from their government offices the world over.

China's new weapon systems--stealth fighters and aircraft carrier-sinking missles--are not a threat to others, China's military leaders say.

This just in (well maybe the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would say I'm a little late) ... US weapons systems have never and will never be a threat to anyone anywhere ... US military leaders say.

If you go carrying pictures of chairman mao you aren't going to make it with it anyone.

Not cool.

Yea, I got the Beatles reference. I deplore communists, but I also deplore any state or political philosophy that uses force against innocents, including the US.

Dude! What's funny is that Chinese military leaders this week said a transparently false thing--that no one need worry or pay attention to all of their military upgrades--I was making light of it. I have never seen US military leaders say that countries should not worry about our weapons. Rather, they say, I think, that if you mess with us we have the wherewithal to respond.

I'm sure the US military would say the same thing as the Chinese. No one need worry about them.

BTW in case you were wondering there are 1186 US military installations outside US territory and 0 Chinese military installations outside China.

LOL! A man of my generation!...BTW, you forgot "any how" (People who know the song will understand) Speaking of Mao, I just read a very comprehensive biography, Mao, The Untold Story. I used to think, ignorantly, that there are not evil people the likes of Hitler. I was wrong. Big Time. Mao was evil to his country, evil to his family, evil to his friends and 70 million people died as a result...

Unfortunately there were quite a few very wicked men at that time. Harry Truman was on the same order as Mao, Stalin and Hitler. Not only did he drop bombs on innocents he sent 20 million Russian whites in Poland and the Ukraine to the slaughter via the treaties signed at the end of the war.

With a billion people, there must be 6-8 of them with speed. Maybe we need to go there and recruit defensive backs - outsourcing of sorts.

Just kidding]

My dad is in Shanghai until tomorrow. I'll ask him to take a look.

[tww]

China's new weapon systems--stealth fighters and aircraft carrier-sinking missles--are not a threat to others, China's military leaders say.

This just in (well maybe the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would say I'm a little late) ... US weapons systems have never and will never be a threat to anyone anywhere ... US military leaders say.

If you go carrying pictures of chairman mao you aren't going to make it with it anyone.

Not cool.

Yea, I got the Beatles reference. I deplore communists, but I also deplore any state or political philosophy that uses force against innocents, including the US.

Dude! What's funny is that Chinese military leaders this week said a transparently false thing--that no one need worry or pay attention to all of their military upgrades--I was making light of it. I have never seen US military leaders say that countries should not worry about our weapons. Rather, they say, I think, that if you mess with us we have the wherewithal to respond.

I'm sure the US military would say the same thing as the Chinese. No one need worry about them.

BTW in case you were wondering there are 1186 US military installations outside US territory and 0 Chinese military installations outside China.

LOL! A man of my generation!...BTW, you forgot "any how" (People who know the song will understand) Speaking of Mao, I just read a very comprehensive biography, Mao, The Untold Story. I used to think, ignorantly, that there are not evil people the likes of Hitler. I was wrong. Big Time. Mao was evil to his country, evil to his family, evil to his friends and 70 million people died as a result...

Unfortunately there were quite a few very wicked men at that time. Harry Truman was on the same order as Mao, Stalin and Hitler. Not only did he drop bombs on innocents he sent 20 million Russian whites in Poland and the Ukraine to the slaughter via the treaties signed at the end of the war.

With a billion people, there must be 6-8 of them with speed. Maybe we need to go there and recruit defensive backs - outsourcing of sorts.

Just kidding]

My dad is in Shanghai until tomorrow. I'll ask him to take a look.

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn into into something else but these are all very old and tired arguments that were debunked long ago. Your statements fall under three categories totally false (as in China has no military installations outside of China), misleading (as in suggesting that U.S. military installations are to keep our allies in line), and twisted (as in equating Truman with Stalin, Hitler and Mao). Whoever your professors were, they sure did a job on you.

[BOID]

I'm with you, tww.

For those who have been been historically challenged about the real McCarthy story, I would encourage you to read Ann Coulter's Book, "Treason." It will blow your mind if you're able to respect how well she has foot-noted it. The Dems of the day did to Joe what they later did to demonize Ken Starr, Newt Gringrich, Karl Rove, and Dick Cheney, all of whom were far better Americans than their detractors were.

For those who have been abused in History class about love of country, I would suggest reading Romney's book, "No Apology: The Case for American Greatness."

No one is saying that the greatest nation in the history of the world has always been perfect. However, there is no intellectuality, only sheep-hood, to be found in the whole-sale swallowing of dogma for the demonization of America.

[jvquarterback]

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn into into something else but these are all very old and tired arguments that were debunked long ago. Your statements fall under three categories totally false (as in China has no military installations outside of China), misleading (as in suggesting that U.S. military installations are to keep our allies in line), and twisted (as in equating Truman with Stalin, Hitler and Mao). Whoever your professors were, they sure did a job on you.

1) China has no foreign military bases. They have recently threatened to build several around the Indian ocean, including Pakistan where the Chinese state has leased port space in Gwadar. If the Chinese were smart they would not build any installations, just as if the US were smart, they would dismantle foreign military installations.

2) I never suggested US military installations existed to keep allies in line. But if you think you should be more worried about a state with >1000 foreign military bases than a state that may have 1, by all means I'll agree.

3) Perhaps you should check your history. Truman, Churchill and the western allies signed treaties ceding eastern Europe to the Soviets. While I agree Stalin and the reds bear most of the culpability for the subsequent murder of Russian whites who had resettled in those countries, Truman and Churchill knew very well what was about to happen (the communists subsequently murdered 20M whites). The unconditional surrenders Truman required left eastern Europe and the far east to the mercy or the communists and led directly to additional unnecessary wars. Yes I put Truman in the same camp as Mao, Hitler and Stalin, if only for bombing innocents in Japan, let alone his other failings.

But you keep on with your worship of the state, setting up for yourself a false god. I don't care if that state is Nazi Germany, USSR, China or the US, patriotism that leads to using (non-retaliatory) force against others is a false god.

No one is saying that the greatest nation in the history of the world has always been perfect. However, there is no intellectuality, only sheep-hood, to be found in the whole-sale swallowing of dogma for the demonization of America.

America /= US government (just as China /= Chinese state). Anyone who thinks criticism of the state, let alone one politician, is equivalent to criticism of America lacks more than "intellectuality." As Dr Johnson said, patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[Schmoe]

I deplore long-winded zealots turning good comedy into useless political rhetoric.

[hawkwing]

This stuff has been split off from the humor thread in the Football section.

I should just delete it, but enough good rebuttal points were brought up to avoid that.

I will tell JV the same thing that I told tae dave, a person who sits down at a piano and plays only one note is doing themselves and everyone else around them a disservice and you'll likely end up in the same situation as him.

[imuakahuku]

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn into into something else but these are all very old and tired arguments that were debunked long ago. Your statements fall under three categories totally false (as in China has no military installations outside of China), misleading (as in suggesting that U.S. military installations are to keep our allies in line), and twisted (as in equating Truman with Stalin, Hitler and Mao). Whoever your professors were, they sure did a job on you.

1) China has no foreign military bases. They have recently threatened to build several around the Indian ocean, including Pakistan where the Chinese state has leased port space in Gwadar. If the Chinese were smart they would not build any installations, just as if the US were smart, they would dismantle foreign military installations.

2) I never suggested US military installations existed to keep allies in line. But if you think you should be more worried about a state with >1000 foreign military bases than a state that may have 1, by all means I'll agree.

3) Perhaps you should check your history. Truman, Churchill and the western allies signed treaties ceding eastern Europe to the Soviets. While I agree Stalin and the reds bear most of the culpability for the subsequent murder of Russian whites who had resettled in those countries, Truman and Churchill knew very well what was about to happen (the communists subsequently murdered 20M whites). The unconditional surrenders Truman required left eastern Europe and the far east to the mercy or the communists and led directly to additional unnecessary wars. Yes I put Truman in the same camp as Mao, Hitler and Stalin, if only for bombing innocents in Japan, let alone his other failings.

But you keep on with your worship of the state, setting up for yourself a false god. I don't care if that state is Nazi Germany, USSR, China or the US, patriotism that leads to using (non-retaliatory) force against others is a false god.

No one is saying that the greatest nation in the history of the world has always been perfect. However, there is no intellectuality, only sheep-hood, to be found in the whole-sale swallowing of dogma for the demonization of America.

America /= US government (just as China /= Chinese state). Anyone who thinks criticism of the state, let alone one politician, is equivalent to criticism of America lacks more than "intellectuality." As Dr Johnson said, patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

WOW!

You need to find a new mentor.
I like your little buzz word non-retalitory force. So let evil go is what you are saying. Kill or enslave every other human on earth and we will stand by and watch. As long as you don't attack us we have no right nor obligation to intercede. Please don't ever run for public office. We have enough of the 60's mentality already in office.
And the comparason of Truman to Mao. Wow. Off the charts with that one. I honestly suggest you find a new history teacher or mentor.

[snoscythe]

So......we're going to rip on the US for not doing more to protect eastern Europe after world war II, and then we're going to rip them for having too many foreign military establishments? I guess we're supposed to be everywhere and nowhere, all at once?

[BoiseBYU]

This stuff has been split off from the humor thread in the Football section.

I should just delete it, but enough good rebuttal points were brought up to avoid that.

I will tell JV the same thing that I told tae dave, a person who sits down at a piano and plays only one note is doing themselves and everyone else around them a disservice and you'll likely end up in the same situation as him.

Thank you! And I will just say this: I am glad to be in a land that allows people to express views no matter how inane.

[Metallicat]

Thank you! And I will just say this: I am glad to be in a land that allows people to express views no matter how inane.

Yep, I couldn't help but laugh at the irony of seeing protesters outside the gate as I drove on base yesterday.