COVID -- No Fans Allowed at UTSA Game

[BroncoBot]

And yet Salt lake county has been under mask mandate since June 25th. I know, I live here and you can't walk into any business without a mask on. If masks work, shouldn't SL county be controlling the spread.

LOL. The one-note wonder strikes again. Again, I reject the legitimacy of that ignorant oversimplification. You can keep banging that key on your piano, but hitting it more and harder won't bring it into tune.

You talk about numbers of what the death rate would be extrapolated over the entire population because of some .0006 number you came up with (I'm assuming that is the number of deaths to date per the current population), maybe that number would be less if governors back east hadn't mandated covid-19 positive patients be sent to nursing homes and long term care facilities earlier this year.

You can find the mortality rate of 0.6% for Utah under the Hospitalizations and Mortality Tab on Utah's official case-counts tab here:

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts/

This only includes Utah illnesses and Utah deaths, so don't worry about it being impacted by those "back east". Utah has the 6th lowest mortality rate, so in all but five other states (and the nation as a whole) the number is higher than that 0.6%.

I get that you don't trust the reported numbers, the media, or your government--there's nothing I can do to persuade anyone to trust numbers they believe to be politically motivated, so I won't waste my breath.

But I will ask if you trust your distrust enough to put millions of lives at risk if you are wrong and the reported numbers are right?

I am beating this key on the piano because you have not answered my question. If masks stop, or slow the spread of the virus, why then is Salt Lake county, where masks have been mandatory since June 25th still have the highest infection rate in the state? Shouldn't we have the spread under control here by now? If you go to the dr and he prescribes a medication and you keep getting sicker, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the medicine wasn't working? You are denying this logic and and telling me that I am the ignorant one.

We've known for decades that masks are not effective at stopping viruses.

The good news is that the mortality of covid 19 is dropping, despite cases going up. This is how pandemics work. less virulent strains eventually replace the ones that are more deadly. I've had a couple relatives and acquaintances test positive for the virus. All of them had nothing more than mild cold symptoms for a few days (these all occured in the last month, I'll admit that what was running through NY in April May seems to be a different story). The vast majority of people will not be affected by the virus. Numbers are looking better every day (we've gone from 5% mortality to less than 3%).

I personally think it makes much more sense to shut down fans at games, or no games period, rather than giving the masses a false sense of security because they put a mask on their face. Social distancing (STAYING HOME, I'm not talking 6 feet apart) is probably the best method to slow the spread. But it would take a true dictator/authoritarian to enforce it. Not sure I want to go there either.

[gingi]

Frdbtr,

I work in the health care profession, and am in consistent contact with most professional levels including management. Part of my job involves data and there is very little health care information in the state I can't know about. I've also had serious surgery and spoken personally with surgeons and doctors down through nurses and prep people. I'm involved politically and, though I can't read mind and therefore know motives, generally know who is going to do what and with whom.

Your premises are good. I can add to them but you don't need it. It won't convince you more and it won't change the mind of anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's how you know if people really care about masks and what they say they represent, all else held equal. They will make certain 1) the most vulnerable people are isolated - if they choose - and are properly wearing ventilators with good filters. 2) They themselves will be properly wearing up-to-date ventilators and wearing gloves. They will restrict themselves and their family to absolutely necessary contact outside the home. Ventilators work, gloves work, and severely restricted movement works, and all three must be used together. If they're not doing all of them then you know it's about something else.

We're dealing with something bigger than masks and that's a topic for a different discussion group. I ache for the parents who can't watch their kids perform, the kids who miss out forever on life building events, and the elderly who aren't allowed to see their grand children.

[SpiffCoug]

It's inhumane how we've treated the elderly in this country the last 7 months.

[BroncoBot]

It's inhumane how we've treated the elderly in this country the last 7 months.

very true.

[frdbtr]

Frdbtr,

I work in the health care profession, and am in consistent contact with most professional levels including management. Part of my job involves data and there is very little health care information in the state I can't know about. I've also had serious surgery and spoken personally with surgeons and doctors down through nurses and prep people. I'm involved politically and, though I can't read mind and therefore know motives, generally know who is going to do what and with whom.

Your premises are good. I can add to them but you don't need it. It won't convince you more and it won't change the mind of anyone who disagrees with you.

Here's how you know if people really care about masks and what they say they represent, all else held equal. They will make certain 1) the most vulnerable people are isolated - if they choose - and are properly wearing ventilators with good filters. 2) They themselves will be properly wearing up-to-date ventilators and wearing gloves. They will restrict themselves and their family to absolutely necessary contact outside the home. Ventilators work, gloves work, and severely restricted movement works, and all three must be used together. If they're not doing all of them then you know it's about something else.

We're dealing with something bigger than masks and that's a topic for a different discussion group. I ache for the parents who can't watch their kids perform, the kids who miss out forever on life building events, and the elderly who aren't allowed to see their grand children.

I didn't respond to the posts talking about "skinny jeans" because my sarcastic remark about letting people wear masks to the game wasn't supposed to be a definitive remark on whether masks work or not. Having said that, what you state above is the truth on the effectiveness of any mask short of a respirator on infectious airborne disease. At least if you believe the OSHA website.

[frdbtr]

And yet Salt lake county has been under mask mandate since June 25th. I know, I live here and you can't walk into any business without a mask on. If masks work, shouldn't SL county be controlling the spread.

LOL. The one-note wonder strikes again. Again, I reject the legitimacy of that ignorant oversimplification. You can keep banging that key on your piano, but hitting it more and harder won't bring it into tune.

You talk about numbers of what the death rate would be extrapolated over the entire population because of some .0006 number you came up with (I'm assuming that is the number of deaths to date per the current population), maybe that number would be less if governors back east hadn't mandated covid-19 positive patients be sent to nursing homes and long term care facilities earlier this year.

You can find the mortality rate of 0.6% for Utah under the Hospitalizations and Mortality Tab on Utah's official case-counts tab here:

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/case-counts/

This only includes Utah illnesses and Utah deaths, so don't worry about it being impacted by those "back east". Utah has the 6th lowest mortality rate, so in all but five other states (and the nation as a whole) the number is higher than that 0.6%.

I get that you don't trust the reported numbers, the media, or your government--there's nothing I can do to persuade anyone to trust numbers they believe to be politically motivated, so I won't waste my breath.

But I will ask if you trust your distrust enough to put millions of lives at risk if you are wrong and the reported numbers are right?

I am beating this key on the piano because you have not answered my question. If masks stop, or slow the spread of the virus, why then is Salt Lake county, where masks have been mandatory since June 25th still have the highest infection rate in the state? Shouldn't we have the spread under control here by now? If you go to the dr and he prescribes a medication and you keep getting sicker, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the medicine wasn't working? You are denying this logic and and telling me that I am the ignorant one.

We've known for decades that masks are not effective at stopping viruses.

The good news is that the mortality of covid 19 is dropping, despite cases going up. This is how pandemics work. less virulent strains eventually replace the ones that are more deadly. I've had a couple relatives and acquaintances test positive for the virus. All of them had nothing more than mild cold symptoms for a few days (these all occured in the last month, I'll admit that what was running through NY in April May seems to be a different story). The vast majority of people will not be affected by the virus. Numbers are looking better every day (we've gone from 5% mortality to less than 3%).

I personally think it makes much more sense to shut down fans at games, or no games period, rather than giving the masses a false sense of security because they put a mask on their face. Social distancing (STAYING HOME, I'm not talking 6 feet apart) is probably the best method to slow the spread. But it would take a true dictator/authoritarian to enforce it. Not sure I want to go there either.

What happened in NY in April was gov quomo forced long term care facilities and nursing homes into taking covid-19 positive patients in which killed a bunch of the most vulnerable to the disease. That doesn't happen and NY's death rate would be closer to Utah's.

[BroncoBot]

Yeah, there's a reason ny is #1 in covid deaths.