School of the prophets?

[Fido]

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/05 ... -land-lds/

A recent survey by The Daily Utah Chronicle found that about 36% of University of Utah students identify themselves as Latter-day Saints, although more than half (54%) grew up in the faith.

By comparison, nearly 62% Utah’s overall population shows up on church membership rolls, a number that continues to slide and has slipped below half (49%) in Salt Lake County.

The next highest religious identification — after Latter-day Saints — at the U. is a sort of nonreligious identification: Agnostics and atheists account for about 14% apiece.
================
So much for the recruiting pitch that you can get the LDS experience at Utah as much as you can at BYU.

[hawkwing]

I also saw a recent survey, maybe this same one that over 30% of those who identify as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel that there is a great deal of discrimination at the University of Utah against the Church.

[nuk13]

I also saw a recent survey, maybe this same one that over 30% of those who identify as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel that there is a great deal of discrimination at the University of Utah against the Church.

If this is true, and I don't doubt it, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are paying, through taxes, for a school that discriminates against them. That is theft.

[gingi]

Maybe a year ago my wife and I were reading some research by a group who was tracking activity of different churches throughout the world especially LDS. It was discomfiting but the few sources checked out. Essentially our church activity is diminishing despite baptisms including Central/South America. There was only one area whose activity was actually growing and I don't recall who -?Africa? but we can't find the write-ups or our notes. Is this familiar to anyone? I don't think it mentioned the U

[jvquarterback]

Maybe a year ago my wife and I were reading some research by a group who was tracking activity of different churches throughout the world especially LDS. It was discomfiting but the few sources checked out. Essentially our church activity is diminishing despite baptisms including Central/South America. There was only one area whose activity was actually growing and I don't recall who -?Africa? but we can't find the write-ups or our notes. Is this familiar to anyone? I don't think it mentioned the U

Elder Cook said in a recent leadership conference this is hogwash. People are leaving church activity at the same rate they always have. No different today than 100 years ago or 50 years ago, or 20 years ago. He actually said things are better than at many times in the past 100 years but that things were pretty steady in the US and Canada.

He also said that the rate of falling away decreases among those who attain greater amounts of education regardless of where they go on to get their education.

[gingi]

Thanks JV for sharing that. It's a relief to hear and I'll search out Elder Cook and his talks. The activity in my ward for 28+yr old singles was 3 out of 101 a few years ago when I had a calling working with them (I was one of the 3) so I mistakenly connected my experience with the hogwash research.

[BlueK]

Maybe a year ago my wife and I were reading some research by a group who was tracking activity of different churches throughout the world especially LDS. It was discomfiting but the few sources checked out. Essentially our church activity is diminishing despite baptisms including Central/South America. There was only one area whose activity was actually growing and I don't recall who -?Africa? but we can't find the write-ups or our notes. Is this familiar to anyone? I don't think it mentioned the U

Elder Cook said in a recent leadership conference this is hogwash. People are leaving church activity at the same rate they always have. No different today than 100 years ago or 50 years ago, or 20 years ago. He actually said things are better than at many times in the past 100 years but that things were pretty steady in the US and Canada.

He also said that the rate of falling away decreases among those who attain greater amounts of education regardless of where they go on to get their education.

well, certainly the ex faction is working pretty hard these days through social media to push the narrative that people are leaving in droves left and right. I think social media just highlights it more perhaps. Then again, there have always been a good number of inactives in every ward I've been in going all the way back decades before there was social media. So hopefully Elder Cook is right.

I suppose it is reasonable to believe that both could be right. People are leaving or going inactive at the same rate as forever, but today not as many are being baptized as in the past. 30 years ago I remember hearing about missions in places like Chile and the Philippines baptizing hundreds, even topping 1,000 in a month. I'm pretty sure that's not the case anymore, but also the church I think changed the approach at one point to make sure potential converts were better prepared first which led to lower numbers of baptisms but higher retention.

[uncoug]

I am late on this topic but I thought I would give my thoughts about activity and people leaving. Over the past 15 years I have lived in the same city and stake. I have served in 3 EQ presidencies and in stake callings. I have noticed a huge trend of strong families leaving. On top of that I have many close friends who have left the church.

As a young adult I saw many of my friends leave the church after serving missions because of issues they encountered while on their missions. These ran the gammit from doctrinal issues, abusive mission presidents, to those who felt pressure to go on missions but didn't whole heartedly believe in the church.

There were always families that were in and out but my area has seen a large number of strong families leave over the past few years. I had an EQ president who was trying to help a brother who was struggling with the new essays the church came out with because it didn't match what he was taught at church growing up. This led to 2 of the 3 members of the EQP and their families to end up leaving the church within a year. I saw multiple families leave over the treatment of LGBTQ family members. I saw more leave once the church changed course last year because it was too little too late in their minds.

I always remember the talk given in conference about "there is a place for you". For full disclosure I am politically a bit to the left and have always been liberal on social issues. I also struggled with the belief that scripture is to be interpreted literally. Noah's Ark killed that for me as a child. Giraffes had no place in pictures from Israel. I always felt on the outside at church because my beliefs were different than most standard members and I was often criticized because people knew I thought differently.

About a decade ago I had a discussion with a Jewish friend where we talked about our religious upbringings and backgrounds. She informed me that she was Jewish in culture, tradition, and somewhat of a spiritual basis. She then talked about those who are Orthodox who have different levels of belief. This made me wonder, can you be accepted as being "Mormon" without aligning to being "A member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints"?

I would hope yes but that creates different classes of members. Who wants to go to a church where you are always discussed in ward council? The gossip always comes back. As I have seen the church acknowledge its past in a more open way, I have seen it confuse a lot of people who were taught differently. They often have a hard time reconciling this new information. It is uncomfortable for many bishops, stake presidents, and even area 70s to address in a forthright manner because they were all taught as the rest of us were.

I have struggled with faith in my life but unlike many, I could care less what others think. I am who I am. I show up most Sundays, fulfill my calling, and could care less how good of a church members is, instead I focus on if they are good people. I dont believe i will be a God some day, nor do I want to. I dont believe in a loving god who would separate families into 3 tiers in heaven. I dont believe in a lot of stuff I was taught.

However I do believe that most church growth is natural and in 2nd-3rd world countries. Growth doesn't always equate to active believing members. If it did, I would be counted at a much lower rate.

I am sure I will get roasted for this post but I like I said earlier, I am happy with who I am and my mom still kind of loves me.

[Cougarfan87]

I am late on this topic but I thought I would give my thoughts about activity and people leaving. Over the past 15 years I have lived in the same city and stake. I have served in 3 EQ presidencies and in stake callings. I have noticed a huge trend of strong families leaving. On top of that I have many close friends who have left the church.

As a young adult I saw many of my friends leave the church after serving missions because of issues they encountered while on their missions. These ran the gammit from doctrinal issues, abusive mission presidents, to those who felt pressure to go on missions but didn't whole heartedly believe in the church.

There were always families that were in and out but my area has seen a large number of strong families leave over the past few years. I had an EQ president who was trying to help a brother who was struggling with the new essays the church came out with because it didn't match what he was taught at church growing up. This led to 2 of the 3 members of the EQP and their families to end up leaving the church within a year. I saw multiple families leave over the treatment of LGBTQ family members. I saw more leave once the church changed course last year because it was too little too late in their minds.

I always remember the talk given in conference about "there is a place for you". For full disclosure I am politically a bit to the left and have always been liberal on social issues. I also struggled with the belief that scripture is to be interpreted literally. Noah's Ark killed that for me as a child. Giraffes had no place in pictures from Israel. I always felt on the outside at church because my beliefs were different than most standard members and I was often criticized because people knew I thought differently.

About a decade ago I had a discussion with a Jewish friend where we talked about our religious upbringings and backgrounds. She informed me that she was Jewish in culture, tradition, and somewhat of a spiritual basis. She then talked about those who are Orthodox who have different levels of belief. This made me wonder, can you be accepted as being "Mormon" without aligning to being "A member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints"?

I would hope yes but that creates different classes of members. Who wants to go to a church where you are always discussed in ward council? The gossip always comes back. As I have seen the church acknowledge its past in a more open way, I have seen it confuse a lot of people who were taught differently. They often have a hard time reconciling this new information. It is uncomfortable for many bishops, stake presidents, and even area 70s to address in a forthright manner because they were all taught as the rest of us were.

I have struggled with faith in my life but unlike many, I could care less what others think. I am who I am. I show up most Sundays, fulfill my calling, and could care less how good of a church members is, instead I focus on if they are good people. I dont believe i will be a God some day, nor do I want to. I dont believe in a loving god who would separate families into 3 tiers in heaven. I dont believe in a lot of stuff I was taught.

However I do believe that most church growth is natural and in 2nd-3rd world countries. Growth doesn't always equate to active believing members. If it did, I would be counted at a much lower rate.

I am sure I will get roasted for this post but I like I said earlier, I am happy with who I am and my mom still kind of loves me.

Thanks for being vulnerable enough to post what is in your heart. I won't roast you, but I will take issue with just one thing you wrote. God does not separate anyone. People separate themselves based on their choices. He invites all to come to Him, and commands none to go away. But He cannot bestow the blessings He has in store to those who will not choose to be like Him. That would lead to chaos (think Greek Mythology).

As far as the essays, they didn't bother me because I had already done the research and read them on FAIR LDS before they were published. The problem is that people were lazy in teaching primary and Sunday School. They taught things that were not clearly set forth in the scriptures. One quick example is how Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon. People would always talk about the Urim and Thummim, except that if you read the title page, it talks about being translated by the gift and power of God, not the Urim and Thummim. Only part of the translation was through the Urim and Thummim, and that was likely the 116 lost pages. This was no secret that Joseph used a Seer Stone. There is a General Conference talk in 1993, I think it was, where then Elder Nelson talked about Joseph using the Seer Stone.

I, for one, am glad that the essays have come forth to highlight the truth. The truth is always complicated and nuanced. It isn't simple. Likewise, life is complicated and nuanced. It is not simple. Whether through ignorance or laziness, we, as a whole Church in our teaching responsibilities had simplified the truth, and thus, actually covered up the nuance and complexity through oral history. Add to that these were not issues necessary to understand for Eternal Salvation and it is easy to understand how the misunderstandings persisted and took on a life of their own.

But I digress. We all struggle with issues in our life. I wish you well as you deal with your burdens. There is a place for you in Christ's Church even if you find you do not believe all that you have been taught. Sooner or later all truth will be revealed.

[BroncoBot]

Will chime in here very late.
I can confirm that the church is growing very quickly in West Africa. To the point they are having problems with leadership not being trained well enough and there is some turnover as a result. I was shocked by the number of units/membership in some of the countries of west Africa.

I agree with Cougarfan, a lot of ppl making a big deal of church history. It's always been there waiting to be read/discovered. Not sure why people are shocked by it. If you're looking for a reason to be shook up, CH will give it to you.

I'm currently reading "a case for the Book of Mormon". I highly recommend it for those looking to strengthen their testimony/knowledge of the history of the Book of Mormon.