Dick Harmon's View On Expansion

[snoscythe]

I believe that was the same case when the Big 12 added TCU and the PAC 12 added Puketah. Yes, they had some great football teams, but total sports package, butts in seats, eyes on TV, tradition, etc. BYU had them beat, but we still lost.

See, I don’t get this. I don’t see how anyone can argue that, in its totality, BYU Athletics is better than Utah’s.

Football during LaVell’s first 20 years? Sure.
Since? I’d give the edge to Utah.
Before? Not even close.

And Utah Basketball has far more tradition than BYU. 3 Final Fours and 12 Sweet 16s in my lifetime.

Is there an attendance spike for BYU road games? Hint: there isn’t. I’ve seen the TV ratings and BYU is generally middle of the road there too. Even attendance at LES is waning. BYU is fine. I just don’t see them as head and shoulders better than anyone else but it a familiar refrain.

Bigger venues, higher home attendance in both money sports, more eyeballs on TV's, more notable football achievements, nationally prominent in football for 20 years longer. Not saying that Utah is Western Kentucky, but BYU has a bigger draw, the numbers say so.

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/colle ... 03286.html

[Schmoe]

I believe that was the same case when the Big 12 added TCU and the PAC 12 added Puketah. Yes, they had some great football teams, but total sports package, butts in seats, eyes on TV, tradition, etc. BYU had them beat, but we still lost.

See, I don’t get this. I don’t see how anyone can argue that, in its totality, BYU Athletics is better than Utah’s.

Football during LaVell’s first 20 years? Sure.
Since? I’d give the edge to Utah.
Before? Not even close.

And Utah Basketball has far more tradition than BYU. 3 Final Fours and 12 Sweet 16s in my lifetime.

Is there an attendance spike for BYU road games? Hint: there isn’t. I’ve seen the TV ratings and BYU is generally middle of the road there too. Even attendance at LES is waning. BYU is fine. I just don’t see them as head and shoulders better than anyone else but it a familiar refrain.

Bigger venues, higher home attendance in both money sports, more eyeballs on TV's, more notable football achievements, nationally prominent in football for 20 years longer. Not saying that Utah is Western Kentucky, but BYU has a bigger draw, the numbers say so.

I've not seen empirical evidence to support superior TV ratings. On the contrary. I don't see BYU pulling 3s. More like 1.2s.
And there is a difference between butts in seats and revenue. I'd be curious to know how many of your 58,000 paid full ticket price and how many are there on a $10 Family Pass or bring a can of soup for a GA ticket. This is an honest question.

But this thread is about the Big-12 expansion so sorry for the threadjack.

We don't have to be pulling 3's to be pulling more than Utah:
Here's our two common opponents last year
2015 Season # of Viewers
Week 1: Utah v Mich 2.868M
Week 4: BYU v Mich 3.071M

Week 3: BYU v UCLA 946K
Week 12: Utah v UCLA 845K

[MTM]

http://www.heraldextra.com/sports/colle ... 03286.html

Couple of silly statements in this piece.

2006 @ Boston College "drew 2-4,000 less than most of the Eagles other home games in 2006." "A pretty good representation for the Cougars."
Teams that outdrew BYU at BC that season-Maine, Duke (2-10), Navy (by 12K)

2007@ UCLA "attendance for this game was very comparable to the Bruins other home games that season." "
"CONCLUSION: BYU draws well in southern California."
Wait. What?

Here is your road attendance last season compared to the average.
Nebraska 89.959 vs, 90.004
UCLA 67,612 vs. 66.707
Michigan 108.940 vs. 110.372
SJSU 15.652 vs, 15.231
Mizzou 42.824 vs. 65.090 (that was a weird week)
USU 22.509 vs. 21.133

This happens every time. I really didn't come here to argue. We could cite articles and statistics all week long.
You think BYU is far and away the best choice for the Big 12 just like I believe the PAC was happy to get Utah and we won't change each other's minds and that's OK.

Good luck.

[MTM]

I believe that was the same case when the Big 12 added TCU and the PAC 12 added Puketah. Yes, they had some great football teams, but total sports package, butts in seats, eyes on TV, tradition, etc. BYU had them beat, but we still lost.

See, I don’t get this. I don’t see how anyone can argue that, in its totality, BYU Athletics is better than Utah’s.

Football during LaVell’s first 20 years? Sure.
Since? I’d give the edge to Utah.
Before? Not even close.

And Utah Basketball has far more tradition than BYU. 3 Final Fours and 12 Sweet 16s in my lifetime.

Is there an attendance spike for BYU road games? Hint: there isn’t. I’ve seen the TV ratings and BYU is generally middle of the road there too. Even attendance at LES is waning. BYU is fine. I just don’t see them as head and shoulders better than anyone else but it a familiar refrain.

Bigger venues, higher home attendance in both money sports, more eyeballs on TV's, more notable football achievements, nationally prominent in football for 20 years longer. Not saying that Utah is Western Kentucky, but BYU has a bigger draw, the numbers say so.

I've not seen empirical evidence to support superior TV ratings. On the contrary. I don't see BYU pulling 3s. More like 1.2s.
And there is a difference between butts in seats and revenue. I'd be curious to know how many of your 58,000 paid full ticket price and how many are there on a $10 Family Pass or bring a can of soup for a GA ticket. This is an honest question.

But this thread is about the Big-12 expansion so sorry for the threadjack.

We don't have to be pulling 3's to be pulling more than Utah:
Here's our two common opponents last year
2015 Season # of Viewers
Week 1: Utah v Mich 2.868M
Week 4: BYU v Mich 3.071M

Week 3: BYU v UCLA 946K
Week 12: Utah v UCLA 845K

Thursday Night vs. Saturday afternoon? Of course BYU drew better.

I'll grant you UCLA although both drew a crappy number.

[Schmoe]

Thursday Night vs. Saturday afternoon? Of course BYU drew better.

I'll grant you UCLA although both drew a crappy number.

Dude, the opening Thursday of college football, the second game of the entire season, with no games to compete with.

[MTM]

There were 4 games on that night but I understand the point you're trying to make.

[Stirfry]

I believe that was the same case when the Big 12 added TCU and the PAC 12 added Puketah. Yes, they had some great football teams, but total sports package, butts in seats, eyes on TV, tradition, etc. BYU had them beat, but we still lost.

See, I don’t get this. I don’t see how anyone can argue that, in its totality, BYU Athletics is better than Utah’s.

Football during LaVell’s first 20 years? Sure.
Since? I’d give the edge to Utah.
Before? Not even close.

And Utah Basketball has far more tradition than BYU. 3 Final Fours and 12 Sweet 16s in my lifetime.

Is there an attendance spike for BYU road games? Hint: there isn’t. I’ve seen the TV ratings and BYU is generally middle of the road there too. Even attendance at LES is waning. BYU is fine. I just don’t see them as head and shoulders better than anyone else but it a familiar refrain.

Bigger venues, higher home attendance in both money sports, more eyeballs on TV's, more notable football achievements, nationally prominent in football for 20 years longer. Not saying that Utah is Western Kentucky, but BYU has a bigger draw, the numbers say so.

I've not seen empirical evidence to support superior TV ratings. On the contrary. I don't see BYU pulling 3s. More like 1.2s.
And there is a difference between butts in seats and revenue. I'd be curious to know how many of your 58,000 paid full ticket price and how many are there on a $10 Family Pass or bring a can of soup for a GA ticket. This is an honest question.

But this thread is about the Big-12 expansion so sorry for the threadjack.

I've wondered about how many are on discount tickets too but it's not like that's unique to byu. Personally in 34 years of living in salt lake I've only had the opportunity or seen the opportunity of going as a ym/yw activity one time. Byu students pay for tickets as well.

I did my mba at Utah two years ago and we were all given two season tickets to football even if we didn't use them and basketball tickets were something like 1 student ID gets 6 people in per game.

It would be interesting to see a ticket revenues per game and also an actual attendance (not tickets sold) per game of both schools.

[MTM]

I believe that was the same case when the Big 12 added TCU and the PAC 12 added Puketah. Yes, they had some great football teams, but total sports package, butts in seats, eyes on TV, tradition, etc. BYU had them beat, but we still lost.

See, I don’t get this. I don’t see how anyone can argue that, in its totality, BYU Athletics is better than Utah’s.

Football during LaVell’s first 20 years? Sure.
Since? I’d give the edge to Utah.
Before? Not even close.

And Utah Basketball has far more tradition than BYU. 3 Final Fours and 12 Sweet 16s in my lifetime.

Is there an attendance spike for BYU road games? Hint: there isn’t. I’ve seen the TV ratings and BYU is generally middle of the road there too. Even attendance at LES is waning. BYU is fine. I just don’t see them as head and shoulders better than anyone else but it a familiar refrain.

Bigger venues, higher home attendance in both money sports, more eyeballs on TV's, more notable football achievements, nationally prominent in football for 20 years longer. Not saying that Utah is Western Kentucky, but BYU has a bigger draw, the numbers say so.

I've not seen empirical evidence to support superior TV ratings. On the contrary. I don't see BYU pulling 3s. More like 1.2s.
And there is a difference between butts in seats and revenue. I'd be curious to know how many of your 58,000 paid full ticket price and how many are there on a $10 Family Pass or bring a can of soup for a GA ticket. This is an honest question.

But this thread is about the Big-12 expansion so sorry for the threadjack.

I've wondered about how many are on discount tickets too but it's not like that's unique to byu. Personally in 34 years of living in salt lake I've only had the opportunity or seen the opportunity of going as a ym/yw activity one time. Byu students pay for tickets as well.

I did my mba at Utah two years ago and we were all given two season tickets to football even if we didn't use them and basketball tickets were something like 1 student ID gets 6 people in per game.

It would be interesting to see a ticket revenues per game and also an actual attendance (not tickets sold) per game of both schools.

Oh, geez, when I was a student at the U anybody could show up at kick off and get in.

My daughter is a student, she is not in the MUSS, and she can get in free but those are limited in supply and first come first served.

PAC-12 affiliation has made it a pretty tough ticket. To secure new season tickets in the chair seats one must make a $6500 Crimson Club donation for two consecutive years.

I'd be curious to see what demand would look like with stadium expansion. It seems like demand is there but maybe not.

Not sure what basketball demand is these days. I just know lower bowl season tickets are more expensive than I am willing to spend.

[vancouvercougar]

[/quote]

Oh, geez, when I was a student at the U anybody could show up at kick off and get in.

My daughter is a student, she is not in the MUSS, and she can get in free but those are limited in supply and first come first served.

PAC-12 affiliation has made it a pretty tough ticket. To secure new season tickets in the chair seats one must make a $6500 Crimson Club donation for two consecutive years.

I'd be curious to see what demand would look like with stadium expansion. It seems like demand is there but maybe not.

Not sure what basketball demand is these days. I just know lower bowl season tickets are more expensive than I am willing to spend.[/quote]

Do you think demand would decrease for Rice Eccles if BYU is part of the BIG 12?

[scott715]

That could sway some of their bandwagon fans.