CougarCorner

https://www.reddit.com/r/byu/comments/b ... dium=web2x

I saw this on Reddit so take it for what you want. I don't know how widespread this will be, but apparently Instagram is going crazy with HC stories (I'm not on Instagram so can't confirm that) and there are some students trying to organize a walkout or sit-in.
Will this be effective? Would you participate in this if you are/were a current student?

I'm sure that if this had happened 25 years ago when I was still at school I'd go by just to "heckle the whiners"

While there are certainly aspects of the Honor Code enforcement that need to be fixed I get the impression that most of the stories online are exaggerated, 2nd hand (or 3rd or 4th), or just incorrect in many details. We also don't have the other side of the story either, and never will.

hawkwing wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:11 pm While there are certainly aspects of the Honor Code enforcement that need to be fixed I get the impression that most of the stories online are exaggerated, 2nd hand (or 3rd or 4th), or just incorrect in many details. We also don't have the other side of the story either, and never will.

I'm pretty sure you remember the story I've told before, which is absolutely true and horribly awful all by itself.

If BYU is going to enforce the Honor Code in any fashion, it needs to be done independently of the Ecclesiastical Endorsement process. Otherwise Bishops are going to get sued for violating confidentiality or getting them kicked out of school, and on the other side, having your Bishop involved in enforcement is going to make students less inclined to go to their Bishop to work things out spiritually.

That said, BYU needs some enforcement mechanism if they keep the Honor Code. I did grad school at Baylor, which also has an Honor Code, but they don't enforce it off of campus, and the on-campus enforcement is limited to housing (e.g., drink on campus, you can't live on campus) and academic honesty. The Honor Code at Baylor is an absolute joke, and everyone in the state of Texas knows it.

How BYU enforces the Code does need reform, however.

The fact that even a single member of the Honor Code Office was using BYU Police to illegally collect information on students for potential HC violations is enough for the entire office to be shut down.

Perhaps it can be reconstituted in some other form. But if I were a student at BYU (I was and never had one interaction with the HCO), I would be demanding a complete overhaul of that office. From top to bottom, everyone should be replaced - should it return.

SpiffCoug wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 pm The fact that even a single member of the Honor Code Office was using BYU Police to illegally collect information on students for potential HC violations is enough for the entire office to be shut down.

Perhaps it can be reconstituted in some other form. But if I were a student at BYU (I was and never had one interaction with the HCO), I would be demanding a complete overhaul of that office. From top to bottom, everyone should be replaced - should it return.

Really? You'd be fine losing your job if one and only one of your coworkers was doing something wrong with theirs?

I read the link. I think the Honor Code Office has an important role in the University. I think they need/needed all the rebuke in the world for the way the BYU police were operating and reforms can and should be made to make sure those things never happen again.

At the end of the day, if a BYU student breaks a major rule of the Honor Code I see nothing wrong with them having to answer for that. In the majority of cases that should lead to them making changes and falling in line with the regulations of the school. Those who do not wish to live the Honor Code can then be allowed to attend another school that is more in-line with their beliefs.

What I don't like is the snitching and how it was/is somewhat encouraged to happen. IMO the HONOR code should be "on your HONOR" and between you, God, and for major sins, your bishop. You know what I do when my kids tattle on each other? They both get the same consequence (unless they were going to harm themselves or someone else). I went to Ricks College / BYU-I so I have no problems with strict rules, but I hate hate hate students snitching on each other!

ABYUFAN wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:09 pm

SpiffCoug wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 pm The fact that even a single member of the Honor Code Office was using BYU Police to illegally collect information on students for potential HC violations is enough for the entire office to be shut down.

Perhaps it can be reconstituted in some other form. But if I were a student at BYU (I was and never had one interaction with the HCO), I would be demanding a complete overhaul of that office. From top to bottom, everyone should be replaced - should it return.

Really? You'd be fine losing your job if one and only one of your coworkers was doing something wrong with theirs?

Yes. I think they should all lose their jobs within the HCO. I think an outside body should investigate (which, I believe they are) to see who else was involved. If they determine those individuals should also lose their jobs at the university.

Those cleared can be retained by the university but in a different capacity and one not related to the Honor Code.