Why the Free Pass / Teflon Touch for Riley?

I love JHs passing abilities, but I frankly am so sick of watching him hide from the physicality of the game I wont be surprised if he never plays DI again.

Jake will play again at BYU and be successful - it just likely won't be until 2013.

He took a lot of shots against Idaho St, and had a big ol smile on his face after a few of them. I'm not too worried about him or his psyche. He just needs to figure out the game at the college level, and a year of RS'ing will do that.



He already does well against bad teams, he just needs to get a little bit better than that over the next year and a half running the scout team.

Y4LYFE wrote:
I love JHs passing abilities, but I frankly am so sick of watching him hide from the physicality of the game I wont be surprised if he never plays DI again.

Kind of like Joe Montana...

SenorCougar wrote:

I love JHs passing abilities, but I frankly am so sick of watching him hide from the physicality of the game I wont be surprised if he never plays DI again.

Kind of like Joe Montana...

Yes, Heaps is the next Joe Montana because he's scared of contact.

It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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BYULV wrote:
It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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I think it's that we haven't had a lot to celebrate this year, we've had a two-year-long debate about QB's, there tons of blame going around, and everyone is at their wit's end (and then someone new comes in and states something that's already been debated endlessly and...). Anyhow, yes, it is unfair to dismiss others' opinions as "trollish" right off the bat.

Schmoe wrote:

It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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I think it's that we haven't had a lot to celebrate this year, we've had a two-year-long debate about QB's, there tons of blame going around, and everyone is at their wit's end (and then someone new comes in and states something that's already been debated endlessly and...). Anyhow, yes, it is unfair to dismiss others' opinions as "trollish" right off the bat.

but, for what its worth, this debate overall has been a little instructive. I feel a bit like riley has gotten a pass on his poor play, but better understand why that is and I don't really have a problem with it. He deserves an ongoing chance. I just hate that our competition before and after TCU is such that there really is not a good test to determine if Riley is progressing or just doing what any decent D1 QB should do, look good against mediocre competition. So tying into another thread, another reason I would rather have a tougher schedule (ie, BCS conference schedule) - that way even your poor wins feel good ;)

BYULV wrote:

BYULV wrote:
It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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I think it's that we haven't had a lot to celebrate this year, we've had a two-year-long debate about QB's, there tons of blame going around, and everyone is at their wit's end (and then someone new comes in and states something that's already been debated endlessly and...). Anyhow, yes, it is unfair to dismiss others' opinions as "trollish" right off the bat.

but, for what its worth, this debate overall has been a little instructive. I feel a bit like riley has gotten a pass on his poor play, but better understand why that is and I don't really have a problem with it. He deserves an ongoing chance. I just hate that our competition before and after TCU is such that there really is not a good test to determine if Riley is progressing or just doing what any decent D1 QB should do, look good against mediocre competition. So tying into another thread, another reason I would rather have a tougher schedule (ie, BCS conference schedule) - that way even your poor wins feel good ;)

How many losses per season, with a BCS schedule, on average typical year could you tolerate before you wanted to reach for a cupcake or two.



BYU, including the glory years, and including BCS doormats is sub .500 Vs BCS opponents IMHO. Someone can go back and calculate it. Vs good at the time BCS teams - way below .500.



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BYULV wrote:
It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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Made me chuckle too. Didn't actually call him a Troll - just said he was posting similar to what the Trolls and Jake Heaps few remaining - close family members probably - apologists are posting. Have to agree that there is some insinuation that could be read into that.



And yes - I have been called a Troll - IMHO for being a realist in a blue-goggled world. I felt this case was different. Ten different people explained that Riley actually leads TD drives and provides more to offset the errors - and that was never acknowledged or refuted - kind of like old AirWolfe just blowing past those indefensible posts he made.



But I am not calling him a Troll. Just pointing out the similarity in what was posted.



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hawkwing wrote:
Are you saying it's impossible to get a QB playing at an optimal level on the sidelines? Is it better for a QB to come in and lose to cupcakes, does that speed up and intensify reaching optimal levels?

Ok, in response:



No, it is not impossible to get a quarterback to an optimal level by sitting out. However - obviously - the counter to your question is also difficult to answer: Is it impossible that a quarterback gains more and at a better rate by coupling increased experience with coaching?



These judgment calls are determined by what dots we choose to discern as being valuable and how we connect them.



Basically, I am not a big believer that an athlete can prove him or herself consistently in legitimate situations - only to have their performance fall of the face of the earth - and think that is as simple as that given athlete has problems. In my opinion, Heaps has proven his ability enough to merit the benefit of the doubt.



Personally, I do think Doman's offensive coordinator growth and the culture misalignment do contribute to what we have seen happen on the field with Heaps. It took Doman long enough to move up to the box, then to better commit to the run, etc. After the Utah game, the team basically needed someone to rescue them from themselves. I wonder if Nelson has helped Doman more than Doman has helped Nelson or Heaps.



That being said, if Doman is experiencing his own learning curve, we were not going to beat good teams anyway. That is why I think the argument for playing Heaps has enough validity to discuss.

If Doman's learning curve is as steep as it might be, the Jake would be even better served with a red-shirt so he can then take over a team with a much more experienced OC.

Cougarbib2 wrote:

Schmoe wrote:

It made me laugh when I read cougarbib2 calling another poster a ute troll. It wasn't too long ago he was the one getting called out as a troll. It seems like we are getting less and less tolerant of other posters opinions on here. I like to hear other opinions, really like it when there are stats to back them up, but seems kind of cougarbluish to call "BS" or "ute troll" when someone disagrees with us. Just my 2 cents.



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I think it's that we haven't had a lot to celebrate this year, we've had a two-year-long debate about QB's, there tons of blame going around, and everyone is at their wit's end (and then someone new comes in and states something that's already been debated endlessly and...). Anyhow, yes, it is unfair to dismiss others' opinions as "trollish" right off the bat.

but, for what its worth, this debate overall has been a little instructive. I feel a bit like riley has gotten a pass on his poor play, but better understand why that is and I don't really have a problem with it. He deserves an ongoing chance. I just hate that our competition before and after TCU is such that there really is not a good test to determine if Riley is progressing or just doing what any decent D1 QB should do, look good against mediocre competition. So tying into another thread, another reason I would rather have a tougher schedule (ie, BCS conference schedule) - that way even your poor wins feel good ;)

How many losses per season, with a BCS schedule, on average typical year could you tolerate before you wanted to reach for a cupcake or two.



BYU, including the glory years, and including BCS doormats is sub .500 Vs BCS opponents IMHO. Someone can go back and calculate it. Vs good at the time BCS teams - way below .500.



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Bcs schedule does not mean no cupcakes, just means there are more interesting games, even when playing the bcs cupcakes. It's just more exciting beating ole miss and Oregon state than Idaho and nmsu. I like the challenge of playing big name programs every year even if it means we lose more, there is no shame in losing to a good team. If you bet those teams from time to time is when it is really worthwhile.



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SpiffCoug wrote:
If Doman's learning curve is as steep as it might be, the Jake would be even better served with a red-shirt so he can then take over a team with a much more experienced OC.

Yes, certainly. However, coaches are accountable for that assessment before a season begins and before eligibility is used. To some extent, I think Doman can get a pass because Heaps was playing so well in camp and our expectations of our offensive line were completely unreasonable.



On the culture/paradigm part, the coaches should know the impact of their message and how that might create conflict with young players who have more ability. You can say we are a band of brothers, but if younger brother is Kyle Van Noy, older brother Wagner had better be willing to get out of his way. The coaches need to take responsibility for that - both in terms of the culture and in terms of making the decision to play the better player.



Therefore, to me, this season is about the use of Heaps eligibility. I can understand the argument - and tend to agree with it - that once we started down this path, the most effective way to get Heaps at an optimal performance point is to ensure that he plays regularly. If Nelson is helping Doman out by creating plays out of nothing, then Doman would probably stand to gain by working through this Heaps situations on the field instead of conceptually - both in terms of playcalling and in terms of mentoring play on the field.

SpiffCoug wrote:
If Doman's learning curve is as steep as it might be, the Jake would be even better served with a red-shirt so he can then take over a team with a much more experienced OC.

Maybe Doman would be better served by taking a red-shirt year...

SenorCougar wrote:

If Doman's learning curve is as steep as it might be, the Jake would be even better served with a red-shirt so he can then take over a team with a much more experienced OC.

Maybe Doman would be better served by taking a red-shirt year...

Doman has REALLY sucked this year. I was hoping he would be able to step in a little better. I am not surprised though. Sno had a post before the season began that said something along the lines of are we setting heaps up for failure. i remember agreeding given how young our team and coaches are. i think this season is playing out about how most of us expected it to. we were all just hoping htat lighting would strike and everything would click. instead we basically have a different version of last year continuing into this year.



this team is young. doman was horrible in the beginning of this year. he lost us the texas game. the other coaches really helped him. they put jake in a really hard spot to win. for whatever reason jake regressed every game and by the time riley came in it was needed for him to take a step back. i think riley has done well but is not the future. I would like to see jake red shirt and the qb spot open up again starting right now. give munns and lark a shot to steal it from nelson. if they can't, then great, if they can, then great. jake will benefit from doman getting more time to learn how to run an offense and gaining experience at the college level.



problem with that idea however is that by the time jake is trying to get the starting spot again we will have taysom hill and munns fighting with him for that spot as well and we know our coaches are great at making personel decisions (not!!!!!!!!). taysom hill may fit better with what doman ends up adopting as a offensive philosophy (he obviously sucks at the west coast style offense and who knows what he is doing right now).



i hate our quarterback situation right now. i guess i have to hold on to the hope that somehow riley gets better and his arm all of the sudden gets stronger. to me riley is a walking turnover and will always have at least two turnovers in a game against good competition.