I have a questions for Utah residents.

settlers of catan almost got me divorced :)

I don't think many people in Utah, esp. those who go to the U or USU associate BYU with the Church as much as you did in your origial post.



That is why they can act and feel the way they do.

So I'm getting that there may be multiple reasons. I must say that I was denied admission to the University of Washington Medical School after very weird interview. I had very good GPA and MCAT scores. The interview was with three people at the same time. There was one guy that really went after me. He asked me quesions as far ranging as Do you support socialized medicine? to How often do you masturbate? I figured he was trying to get my goat, so I just tried to be cool about it. When I was denied, I was really angry. I spoke with the Dean of Admissions to find out the reason. He just said that maybe I would be better off going to a school like Loma Linda (Seventh Day Adventist).



Do I have a life long hatred for their school? No, it only lasted for a few years. I do have questions for members that hate BYU.



Do you hate the BOT of BYU?

Do you hate the TV network and what it is trying to accomplish?

Do you hate the fact that a good deal of your tithing ends up there?

Do you hate that they really make a concerted effort to raise the moral and academic standards of their athletes, and all of their students for that matter?

Do you find it easy to cheer with the vulger, and vile people that show up at sporting events to yell their obscenities at players because they are members of your church?

good post Dwight, but do you have any other connection to UW med school other than an interest in attending?



something that's overlooked is that everyone in the LDS church has an association with BYU whether they like it or not. Not necssarily BYU sports, but BYU. General Conference is on Kbyu, apostles and prophets run the school, they speak there and hire its teachers. A huge amount of Tithing money subsidizes students and EVERYONE knows someone who went there.



Now imagine having that kind of connection, especially if all your friends and family go, and BYU hands you a rejection notice. That's pretty different kind of feeling than being rejected from a "good school" somewhere that you "like".

mjk5 wrote:
I've been on both sides of this debate. I lived in Utah during high school at Timpview and part of college at BYU. I was always very bugged by the "out-of-staters" who looked down through their noses at "Utah Mormons" and called us sheltered and self-righteous.



Then I moved out of Utah (for the last 8 years) and began to see what people meant by "Utah Mormons" when I'd visit certain friends and family. There are SOME people exactly like AZman described (i.e. self-righteous, all about the perception of living right rather than actually living right).



However, that self-righteousness doesn't characterize "most" of the BYU/Utah Mormons. Not by a long shot. Most BYU/Utah Mormons are very good people, just like most of the anti-BYU Mormons are. However, there's a small percentage of people on both sides who really manifest their pride...just in different ways. Although there are some prideful, self-righteous BYU fans, there are some anti-BYU Mormons who are just as self-righteous and prideful in the way they hate and look down at BYU students and fans.

I agree-- I also grew up in UT but have lived for many years out of state. I think what you're referring to is related IN PART to sheer numbers. You can find all sorts of mormons in UT just because there are so many ..and the crazier ones tend to be more vocal (the vocal minority). There are plenty of good members in UT that are NOT sheltered, don't argue about caffeine, etc. The other side of this is that a homogenous LDS-dominated culture produces some oddities. No doubt about it.. anyone that wants to argue otherwise is in denial. One of the oddities is the need for disaffected UT mormons to over compensate for their insecurities by showing how much like the "rest of the world" they are... e.g., their facebook profile photo shows them shotgunning beer at a party, their wardrobe is filled with squatters brewery tshirts, etc. All the while they don't realize that the rest of the country really doesn't act that way or at least doesn't advertise it to that level (they thought it did based on what they'd seen on MTV or somewhere else), and they end up just looking like douches. These are the anti-BYU fans that make going to a game at rice eccles intolerable.

I went to BYU and got a Masters of Accountancy. If I were to apply today I could not even get in the front door. It is becoming a competitive school to get into. Has nothing to do about spirituality but academics.

I need to add something of a post script to my feelings on this subject.



While I am uncomfortable and perplexed with the actions of those who go well beyond not supporting and into forming hatred for church institutions like BYU usually relating in some way to feelings of perceived inferiority or a need to rebel, there is another side to this coin that is not going away.



First, I will qualify my statement with a disclaimer. I have more than my fair share of shortcomings and I have no personal need to compare myself with anyone else for my self-esteem. Having said that I will now venture into deep water. Having lived both in and out of Utah it seems to me that, on the average, Utahans tend to have more of a spiritual handicap than an advantage and calling Utah "Zion" is on par with calling the Vatican "holy."



Until recently I have looked to church institutions like BYU and KSL as flag bearers of gospel principles but alas, no more.



I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard. Not only have they embraced these abominations but anyone that speaks out in opposition to either by quoting scripture is now vilified and censored. It is a sad day. I feel like I just caught superman drinking and watching porn because he had grown tired of being called a goody-two-shoes.



Where now shall the world look for an ensign or example?

My experience is that the place where you live has little or nothing to do with your spiritual development. Things in Utah are magnified because of the sheer numbers of LDS folks. There are hyper Mormons who wont let their kids drink caffeine in Utah, and everywhere else. There are also casual Mormons who don't have a problem drinking, as long as its not on a Sunday, in Utah and everywhere else. Then there are "normal" Mormons (whom everyone thinks they are a part of) here and everywhere else.



There are Mormons in Utah who think they are more spiritual because they live in Utah. There are Mormons in Utah who think Mormons who didn't grow up in Utah are more spiritual. There are Mormons who didn't grow up in Utah and think they would be more spiritual if they did live there, and there are Mormons who don't live in Utah who think the Mormons in Utah are as spiritual as they are.



There are Mormons who don't grow up in Utah and come to Utah for school and get in a super transitory, student ward with kids from all over the country (including Utah) still trying to figure out their beliefs and believe that that is what Utah Mormons and Utah Wards are like and never live in an actual adult, stable ward but go on to say that they have lived in and out of Utah.



I believe a ward and Mormon "type" has more to do with age, maturity, and socio-economic standing than Utah or non-Utah status.

tww wrote:
I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

BerliNY wrote:

I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

Yeah, I know. Which makes it all the crazier. But read for yourself.



http://standardofliberty.org/

Wow..... this article reminds me of rumorboard. Extremely negative and no substantive proof. I don't know who these people are but I don't like it. :angry:

tww wrote:

tww wrote:
I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

Yeah, I know. Which makes it all the crazier. But read for yourself.



http://standardofliberty.org/

Maybe we can get in the PAC 12 now. BTW, this reads like typical Born Again Christian anti-Mormon slanted propaganda - deceitfully disguised as coming from a concerned LDS Church member.



Kind of like a Ute Troll coming on here and pretending to be concerned about a BYU player and concluding that he should transfer to Utah and all future recruits at that position should sign with Boise State. You just smell an agenda in there.



Search for Dallin Oaks if you want the Church opinion on this topic.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

tww wrote:

tww wrote:
I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

Yeah, I know. Which makes it all the crazier. But read for yourself.



http://standardofliberty.org/

There's a fair amount I want to say to this, but the last thing I need right now is to be involved in an internet flame war. I'll say this: I think this thread should be moved to the Lounge if this is the direction it's gonna go in.

Dcr36 wrote:

BerliNY wrote:

I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

Yeah, I know. Which makes it all the crazier. But read for yourself.



http://standardofliberty.org/

There's a fair amount I want to say to this, but the last thing I need right now is to be involved in an internet flame war. I'll say this: I think this thread should be moved to the Lounge if this is the direction it's gonna go in.

I agree. In fact, I have debating putting this in the lounge before that link was even posted. Lets say this, if you have any questions or comments about BYU and allowance of homosexuality or anything along those lines, please limit them to private messages, or at the very least, create a new thread in the lounge (though there is no guarantee it wont be locked).



If this topic strays any more from why Mormons don't like BYU then I will probably move it to the Lounge.

hawkwing wrote:

tww wrote:

tww wrote:
I now have a love-hate for BYU and mostly a hate for KSL. KSL is a liberal cesspool and BYU has now embraced, homosexuality as a norm, and socialism as a standard.

What ...in ... the ... hell ... are you talking about?



KSL and BYU are mocked to scorn by liberal organizations for NOT accepting homosexuality and socialism.

Yeah, I know. Which makes it all the crazier. But read for yourself.



http://standardofliberty.org/

There's a fair amount I want to say to this, but the last thing I need right now is to be involved in an internet flame war. I'll say this: I think this thread should be moved to the Lounge if this is the direction it's gonna go in.

I agree. In fact, I have debating putting this in the lounge before that link was even posted. Lets say this, if you have any questions or comments about BYU and allowance of homosexuality or anything along those lines, please limit them to private messages, or at the very least, create a new thread in the lounge (though there is no guarantee it wont be locked).



If this topic strays any more from why Mormons don't like BYU then I will probably move it to the Lounge.

Sorry....I was in process of moving it to the Lounge while you were replying. I went through the whole thread, and found nothing football/sports related, so I made the move.

I enjoyed the article actually since the lengthy article points out a number of instances where BYU appears to be 'acquiescing' to demands of a very loud LGBT community. I can see how someone might have issues with that and I think they made some valid criticisms.



But the article starts with this gem:

SOL article wrote:
Certain department heads, professors, guest lecturers, and students have become a law unto themselves, regularly preaching all manner of progressivism including socialism, radical feminism, anti-Americanism, revisionist history, outdated Darwinism, and popular homosexualism, and continue to be supported, employed, and welcomed

I was really interested to see what they had about all of those topics since I've had my own experiences from professors related to some of those topics on campus but not a word on any of them except homosexuality. That's extremely misleading which leads me to think that this might not be as legitimate as i first thought.



I disagree with some of their conclusions since one of the reasons people hate BYU (back to the OP) is their lack of dealing with 'ugly 'problems like serious honor code violations, hiding things, and sweeping them under the rug. In this article, I see a university trying to address some of those issues.

wow. and suddenly i''m in the Lounge! guess I took too long writing my reply



Hello futon and armchair!

Here is how at least one U of U professor proves that he is even more livberal than thes3e supposedly rogue BYU Professors. How timely - today's Daily Herald - anoterh hated liberal bastion.



http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/utah-to-boston-passenger-denies-child-porn-charge/article_53d0d734-19e7-11e1-b876-001cc4c03286.html?oCampaign=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



This story seems legitimate. Names, dates, places.

Cougarbib2 wrote:
Here is how at least one U of U professor proves that he is even more livberal than thes3e supposedly rogue BYU Professors. How timely - today's Daily Herald - anoterh hated liberal bastion.



http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/utah-to-boston-passenger-denies-child-porn-charge/article_53d0d734-19e7-11e1-b876-001cc4c03286.html?oCampaign=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



This story seems legitimate. Names, dates, places.

Wha? Being a child pornographer makes you liberal? My wife leans left, am I gonna have to start checking her internet cache? :bug:

I apologized for hijacking the thread and getting it sent to the lounge. That was not my intention but I swerved into it. It could be this discussion doesn't belong on this board. It is something that I am very concerned about though. And no it is not anti-BYU rumor flaming. It is from people who are genuinely concerned.