NFL Draft & BYU Players - Cause for Concern

BlueIsBetter wrote:
I'm not sure if anyone has really touched on the fact that this is the second year running that we haven't sent anyone to the draft.



Next year will be the same, unless, as lingo pointed out "Heaven forbid, KVN leaves early."



3 years not getting anyone to the draft is a big problem. Especially when our in state rival will be into double digits in that same 3 year span.



I suppose that our RT and RG have a shot to get drafted in the later rounds. Beyond them, it's hard to see anyone go.

How many draft picks are you projecting Utah to have next year?



Because they would have to have a minimum of 7 picks to get to double digits in the same 3 year span.

I am not overly concerned about the draft. The only way it can hurt BYU is in future recruiting, and guys go to BYU because it is BYU, and rarely because of anything else.



Plus I think there is some promising talent on the team for the future. KVN has some real NFL potential. Cody Hoffman looks like NFL material too. Ansah will probably get a shot based on athleticism. And then there are a bunch of young players with tons of potential, which we will see if they live up to. Apo, Taysom Hill, Zac Stout, Ryker Matthews...plenty to be excited about.



I think the lack of NFL draft picks shows what little Bronco had to work with. And so far it doesn't appear to be hurting recruiting.

hawkwing wrote:
A follow up study would be interesting to see if the destined musicians actually became such, after all the ones who were projecting who was destined to be professional we're themselves not dedicated enough to be professionals...

Well part of the study/research was to show how an unbalanced level of resources is devoted to certain people and not others.



As a result of being deemed "gifted" those musicians received more attention and more opportunities. Success essentially was "easier" for them. Certainly it wasn't across the board, but it was statistically significant nonetheless. By being perceived as "gifted" they got accepted into different/better programs and introduced to people and situations the "average" musicians didn't; so, yes the majority of "gifted" musician did go on to become professionals.



You can think of it as the kid that aces his first standardized test. Yes, maybe the child is a genius, but odds are Mom and Dad just spent a bit more time working with the kid. As a result of that test, the kid gets put in some advanced class, which results in more 1:1 teaching from better teachers. The child learns more. Takes more tests and soon finds themselves at a fancy college on a scholarship. Hard work and at-home dedication is certainly required, but the point is it isn't that the child is smarter. They just spent more time earlier and consequently benefited from increased attention.



To a degree, the same thing happens with athletes.



And, for the record, the researcher also asked Tech giants such as Steve Jobs how much time they probably put into programming before "making it big." All were over the 10,000 hour mark. In fact, Steve Jobs estimated he'd spent over "10,000 hours" programming.



Put 10,000 hours into becoming a football player and I don't care who you are, you'll come out at then end a decent football player. Combine that with a bit of athletic talent and there is no reason why the NFL shouldn't be drafting BYU players every year. The hours need to be increased. IMO there is a direct correlation between the number of hours our guys are practicing and the number of draftees being signed. I think it's no coincidence that the number has gone down with Bronco's light practice, low priority approach.

Here's a breakdown of 10,000 hours of dedication.

If you worked 2 hours a day, 5 days a week on a hobby (football, music, etc.) it would take you 1,000 weeks to reach that amount of time invested. If you took two weeks a year off for vacation, that would be 20 years.



If you spent 8 hours a days, it would still take you 5 years of doing little else.

Hmm. Looks like we have some fans of "Outliers." I tried to think about anything I was interested enough in to spend 10,000 hours. As it turns out, the only thing I think I have spent 10,000 hours doing is watching TV. I wonder if there are any careers for professional TV watchers...

SpiffCoug wrote:
Here's a breakdown of 10,000 hours of dedication.

If you worked 2 hours a day, 5 days a week on a hobby (football, music, etc.) it would take you 1,000 weeks to reach that amount of time invested. If you took two weeks a year off for vacation, that would be 20 years.



If you spent 8 hours a days, it would still take you 5 years of doing little else.

Not unreasonable at all.



From an athlete's perspective they typically start rather young these days. An average of two hours a day isn't too far off for a serious contender. Assuming they start at the age of 5 or so playing catch with Dad for a bit. Daily amount of time increases with age so the daily average is spread out. By the time they are in high-school they're at the half way mark. By the time they are graduating from college they'll be just shy and in some cases over as a college athlete should be spending 3+ hours a day.



Those that put more time into it, hit the 10,000 mark sooner.



It's not unreasonable for a top athlete, say someone like Heaps, do spend a good solid portion of their summers working out, going to camps, etc. Well over 2+ hours/day.

hawkwing wrote:

I'm not sure if anyone has really touched on the fact that this is the second year running that we haven't sent anyone to the draft.



Next year will be the same, unless, as lingo pointed out "Heaven forbid, KVN leaves early."



3 years not getting anyone to the draft is a big problem. Especially when our in state rival will be into double digits in that same 3 year span.



I suppose that our RT and RG have a shot to get drafted in the later rounds. Beyond them, it's hard to see anyone go.

How many draft picks are you projecting Utah to have next year?



Because they would have to have a minimum of 7 picks to get to double digits in the same 3 year span.

I'm going back to 2010, when they had 6. I guess throwing in this year would have made a 3 year span for that. Still, their 4 year span will be double digits then, and ours won't even break one hand. Possibly won't extend past two fingers.

dmcougar wrote:

It is a talent issue. Even USU coaches can develop a talented player into an NFL draft able player.



BYU used to produce the occasional Heisman Trophy, Outland Trophy, etc. winner and once had two DL taken in the 1st round in the same year iirc.



We need more than just NFL draft material. We need some high round picks.



Manti Teo - for example.



But if those guys have HC issues as was rumored, or just want the lights - the lights shine brighter in South Bend and at the LA Coliseum. They just do.



Big picture - BYU is a better place to be. Manti Teo would have done as well playing for BYU as he has at ND. You cannot hold back legitimate talent.



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Didnt Matt R qualify as legit nfl talent?

He had the name and hype but was marginal in the end. I think he will play for a while. Probably won't dominate. I hope he proves that statement wrong because I like him and bought into the hype. He is not horrible. He is white and a bit slow.

hawkwing wrote:
Age caused by missions is a huge area of concern.



The fact is, if we want to start putting more top talent LDS kids into the NFL and they want to serve a mission, we have to start putting them into the drafter after their JR season.



The average NFL career is between 3 and 4 years, that means with missions and redshirts, the average NFL player is done with his NFL career at the same time an RM, redshirt senior from BYU is entering the draft.



What team is going to want to risk a pick on a guy who's 3 best years may be behind him already? He'd have to be a serious cut above the next kid.

Not wanting to be called a troll, but who drafted the old Ute lineman.

It is talent. Better figure out how to get more Afro Americans on board. Or heat the poly pipeline back up or both.



BTW re bowl wins and crappy opponents. We beat 6-5 Michigan who then became 6-6 Michigan for the Natioal championship.



Who are the signature bowl wins



K-state was very good. Missouri was decent. SMU was good. I am running short on my list. Note we were putting out future Super Bowl MVPs at QB and many other NFL players those years.



That is what it takes. The convergence of experience and incredible talent at many positions and some depth.



We have rarely and continua to rarely have that.

Pattern recognition



Those who say talent is not the issue for the draft also seem to think stars do not matter and recruiting class rankings do not matter.



Those who now want to hang these coaches for not being able to develop talent into a Max Hall or John Beck or Austin Collie or Dennis Oitta are the same ones that led the outcry to fire the coaches that did develop those players.

Very interesting - Matt Putnam invited to GB mini-camp. He is someone that flew under the radar due to academic issues but was a major disruption at DE when he did get onto the field. I believe we have some talented players but primarily in back-up roles - occasionally ones that stand out. NFL teams are not always willing to spend a draft pick but certainly offer FA contracts or invite to mini-camps.



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To be clear. Players who get un drafted free agent opportunities in the NFL are not bad players and they do have talent - it is just more on the margin level of talent.



My best friend's son who also gets told he is too small, too slow, or unathletic is in this same situation this year even after making several 1st or 2nd PAC Ten lists.



Other than not being LDS - he would be a prototypical white BYU linebacker. Overachiever. Very good. Right on the cusp of NFL talent level. Un drafted.



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Cougarbib2 wrote:
To be clear. Players who get un drafted free agent opportunities in the NFL are not bad players and they do have talent - it is just more on the margin level of talent.



My best friend's son who also gets told he is too small, too slow, or unathletic is in this same situation this year even after making several 1st or 2nd PAC Ten lists.



Other than not being LDS - he would be a prototypical white BYU linebacker. Overachiever. Very good. Right on the cusp of NFL talent level. Un drafted.



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Last year Will Blackburn, guard for LSU, was All-SEC and All-America and went undrafted because of his perceived lack of athleticism.

You don't win at the rate that Bronco wins if you can't develop players.



However, development for the NFL is different than development for success at BYU.



Missions are a huge factor. Bronco targets mission bound athletes more than any other football coach has ever done before. And we still win those recruiting battles the overwhelmingly majority of the time. The whole "alignment with the mission of BYU" thing is the direction he chose to go with the program and the results have been very good.



The trade off is that we are getting less of the extremely talented nonRM player. We didn't get Havili. We didn't initially get Kaveinga. We didn't get Teo. The list goes on and on. I don't have the precise numbers, but it seemed like we got more of those types of players in the past. I don't know what can be done to change that track record, but we need more of those players like Kyle Van Noy to not only improve our record on the field, but also our draft image as well.