Why won't the magic happen?

Stirfry wrote:
I know I can't convince you on either of your two favorite topics, Riley Nelson and scheduling, but a sophmore Heaps was benched and relagated to 2nd string for the season with a PER virtually the same as the senior Nelson. Nelson was benched after nearly 7 terrible quarters of play and was never relegated to 2nd string.



As I said, the decission doesn't seem to be based on on the field performance as measured by PER.

Which it should. On field production should be counting more under Bronco than it currently does.

Cougarbib wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Remember that Austin Collie gave us the formula. You have to do what's right ON AND off the field (emphasis added). We are not doing what's right on the field (playing a QB that is below the standard that got Heaps benched--getting away from West Coast Offense roots). Hence, no magic. ;)

Not true, Riley is still playing better this year than Heaps played last year before being benched. Heaps PER last year (including the good game he had against NMST) was 110.98. Nelson's PER this year (against tougher competition I might add) is 114.91. Yes it is still bad but better than Heaps was last year. So you can't say he is playing below the level Heaps played that got him benched.

I'll say it: Riley is playing below the level that Heaps was playing at that got him benched. I have a hard time that Riley, who's in his 4th year at BYU, plus a year at USU, and 2 more years to mature, is outperforming Heaps based on having a PER that is less than 4 points higher. Riley's performance relative to his time in college football is far below what got Heaps benched. How does a QB with 2 1/2 years to improve get benched and a QB with a PER only 4 points higher and 5 games to improve not get benched?



In this situation the decission doesn't seem to be based on on field performance as measured by PER.

When he was injured and really stunk it up he got benched. He has played better since then - thus he is still playing. And the PER medicine is right around the corner.



List Jake's PER vs undefeated top 5 teams mid-season. That should prove insightful. I do not recall him playing any of those.



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False, freakin false, false, false. He jacked up crap after crap for two very winnable games before he got benched. You are such a Riley freak, I swear, you must be Bronco or Broncos brother or you all attend the same club.



Name the absolute worse PER by any starter!!! Let me help you! Does -4 help give you a clue???!!!

Stirfry wrote:

Stirfry wrote:

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Remember that Austin Collie gave us the formula. You have to do what's right ON AND off the field (emphasis added). We are not doing what's right on the field (playing a QB that is below the standard that got Heaps benched--getting away from West Coast Offense roots). Hence, no magic. ;)

Not true, Riley is still playing better this year than Heaps played last year before being benched. Heaps PER last year (including the good game he had against NMST) was 110.98. Nelson's PER this year (against tougher competition I might add) is 114.91. Yes it is still bad but better than Heaps was last year. So you can't say he is playing below the level Heaps played that got him benched.

I'll say it: Riley is playing below the level that Heaps was playing at that got him benched. I have a hard time that Riley, who's in his 4th year at BYU, plus a year at USU, and 2 more years to mature, is outperforming Heaps based on having a PER that is less than 4 points higher. Riley's performance relative to his time in college football is far below what got Heaps benched. How does a QB with 2 1/2 years to improve get benched and a QB with a PER only 4 points higher and 5 games to improve not get benched?



In this situation the decission doesn't seem to be based on on field performance as measured by PER.

When he was injured and really stunk it up he got benched. He has played better since then - thus he is still playing. And the PER medicine is right around the corner.



List Jake's PER vs undefeated top 5 teams mid-season. That should prove insightful. I do not recall him playing any of those.



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Bib,



I know I can't convince you on either of your two favorite topics, Riley Nelson and scheduling, but a sophmore Heaps was benched and relagated to 2nd string for the season with a PER virtually the same as the senior Nelson. Nelson was benched after nearly 7 terrible quarters of play and was never relegated to 2nd string.



As I said, the decission doesn't seem to be based on on the field performance as measured by PER.

We actually agree. Riley playing with fractures in his back was worse than a healthy Jake Heaps. That is why Riley got pulled. Jake also had an experienced back-up QB who even you acknowledged is slightly better even when you insist on including games he played with a major injury. There is not an experienced back-up this year and Lark would not be an investment in the future. Hill would have been. Speaking of Hills - Jaime Hill got fired mid-season for losing to USU on the road. Jake was about to lose to USU for a 2nd time and in LES when he got pulled. Losing to teams you are favored to beat gets you pulled. Losing on the road to ranked teams does not - unless there is an experienced back up.



List who lost to who or nearly lost to Ole Miss, etc., and it will get clear for you.



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dmcougar wrote:

Stirfry wrote:

Cougarfan87 wrote:
Remember that Austin Collie gave us the formula. You have to do what's right ON AND off the field (emphasis added). We are not doing what's right on the field (playing a QB that is below the standard that got Heaps benched--getting away from West Coast Offense roots). Hence, no magic. ;)

Not true, Riley is still playing better this year than Heaps played last year before being benched. Heaps PER last year (including the good game he had against NMST) was 110.98. Nelson's PER this year (against tougher competition I might add) is 114.91. Yes it is still bad but better than Heaps was last year. So you can't say he is playing below the level Heaps played that got him benched.

I'll say it: Riley is playing below the level that Heaps was playing at that got him benched. I have a hard time that Riley, who's in his 4th year at BYU, plus a year at USU, and 2 more years to mature, is outperforming Heaps based on having a PER that is less than 4 points higher. Riley's performance relative to his time in college football is far below what got Heaps benched. How does a QB with 2 1/2 years to improve get benched and a QB with a PER only 4 points higher and 5 games to improve not get benched?



In this situation the decission doesn't seem to be based on on field performance as measured by PER.

When he was injured and really stunk it up he got benched. He has played better since then - thus he is still playing. And the PER medicine is right around the corner.



List Jake's PER vs undefeated top 5 teams mid-season. That should prove insightful. I do not recall him playing any of those.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

False, freakin false, false, false. He jacked up crap after crap for two very winnable games before he got benched. You are such a Riley freak, I swear, you must be Bronco or Broncos brother or you all attend the same club.



Name the absolute worse PER by any starter!!! Let me help you! Does -4 help give you a clue???!!!

Let me repeat this S L O W L Y since I have posted it 10 times.



Riley played very poorly with the back injury. If he had an experienced back-up, like - say - Jake Heaps had he stayed - Jake would have started the Utah game, BSU game, Hawaii game, and USU game and had he played well - never relinquished the job.



S L O W L Y repeating again - Riley should have been pulled sooner than he was pulled.



But somehow, you are going to once again going to pretend that I did not say this and pick an argument where there is no disagreement.



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Cougarbib wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:

frdbtr wrote:

Remember that Austin Collie gave us the formula. You have to do what's right ON AND off the field (emphasis added). We are not doing what's right on the field (playing a QB that is below the standard that got Heaps benched--getting away from West Coast Offense roots). Hence, no magic. ;)

Not true, Riley is still playing better this year than Heaps played last year before being benched. Heaps PER last year (including the good game he had against NMST) was 110.98. Nelson's PER this year (against tougher competition I might add) is 114.91. Yes it is still bad but better than Heaps was last year. So you can't say he is playing below the level Heaps played that got him benched.

I'll say it: Riley is playing below the level that Heaps was playing at that got him benched. I have a hard time that Riley, who's in his 4th year at BYU, plus a year at USU, and 2 more years to mature, is outperforming Heaps based on having a PER that is less than 4 points higher. Riley's performance relative to his time in college football is far below what got Heaps benched. How does a QB with 2 1/2 years to improve get benched and a QB with a PER only 4 points higher and 5 games to improve not get benched?



In this situation the decission doesn't seem to be based on on field performance as measured by PER.

When he was injured and really stunk it up he got benched. He has played better since then - thus he is still playing. And the PER medicine is right around the corner.



List Jake's PER vs undefeated top 5 teams mid-season. That should prove insightful. I do not recall him playing any of those.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Bib,



I know I can't convince you on either of your two favorite topics, Riley Nelson and scheduling, but a sophmore Heaps was benched and relagated to 2nd string for the season with a PER virtually the same as the senior Nelson. Nelson was benched after nearly 7 terrible quarters of play and was never relegated to 2nd string.



As I said, the decission doesn't seem to be based on on the field performance as measured by PER.

We actually agree. Riley playing with fractures in his back was worse than a healthy Jake Heaps. That is why Riley got pulled. Jake also had an experienced back-up QB who even you acknowledged is slightly better even when you insist on including games he played with a major injury. There is not an experienced back-up this year and Lark would not be an investment in the future. Hill would have been. Speaking of Hills - Jaime Hill got fired mid-season for losing to USU on the road. Jake was about to lose to USU for a 2nd time and in LES when he got pulled. Losing to teams you are favored to beat gets you pulled. Losing on the road to ranked teams does not - unless there is an experienced back up.



List who lost to who or nearly lost to Ole Miss, etc., and it will get clear for you.



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And there won't be an experienced back up next year either because Riley is still playing. Riley admitting that he played at 65% is no excuse for playing poorly unless he told the coaches "I'm at 65% and can't play my game". Had he not basically said "I'll never pull myself no matter what" he lost any benefit of sympathizers saying he was hurt. The team is supposed to be first but with Riley his last chance to play football comes first. Captain Chaos' style of play that squeaks out his barely higher PER is also what causes him to be hurt so much, which you believe is what causes him to play poorly.



If Riley would follow the example that was shown to him, which got him some reps in 2009 because the 2nd string QB valued the team over himself, he wouldn't get nearly as much criticism.

Well said Stirfry. I have never seen such blatant self-interest and blatant indulgence by a coach. Who ecxactly did Riley think he was? Freakin superman? Rocky Balboa?

And to think that a healthy James Lark, the same who was given a full quarter vs WSU wasn't better than Mr Minus Four????? Even a diminutive Kuresa at 100% had to be better with a limitedly playbook than Mr -4. Which was all unnecessary given that the stud Hill was in fact available for U and BSU.

What an inexcusable joke.

Actually, Riley should have gotten MORE reps in 2009. If coaches hadn't been so hell-bent on playing Jake that they didn't use the multiple opportunities in 2009 to see if Riley could actually be the QB of the future.



The current QB woes are in part due to coaches not using the plethora of garbagae time we had in 2009 to see if Riley could run the entire offense efficiently and effectively.



The coaches failed to make a decision coming out of spring ball in 2010 is what really doomed the 2010, 2011 and now 2012 seasons. There wasn't a wrong decision to make - other than to not make one.



Magic doesn't happen in a vacuum - at least not in football. It takes preparation and decision making. Our coaches failure to make decisions in 2009 and 2010 are hurting the program now. Our quarterbacks of the last two seasons inability to make simple plays is killing the team and leading to losses that we shouldn't have.

dmcougar wrote:
Well said Stirfry. I have never seen such blatant self-interest and blatant indulgence by a coach. Who ecxactly did Riley think he was? Freakin superman? Rocky Balboa?

And to think that a healthy James Lark, the same who was given a full quarter vs WSU wasn't better than Mr Minus Four????? Even a diminutive Kuresa at 100% had to be better with a limitedly playbook than Mr -4. Which was all unnecessary given that the stud Hill was in fact available for U and BSU.

What an inexcusable joke.

I wish Lark and Munns were willing to do everything Riley did to get on the field. Sometimes you have to do more than just what is asked. Show how much you want to play and get on the field. Do more than is asked.

There can be only one Gadianton Robber. I'm glad Lark hasn't stooped to such smoke and mirror parlor tricks. If that kind Of Riley-esque campaigning and/or blackmailing and/or kissing butt and/or "sacrificing" your body in some reckless display of fraudulent, short-lived rarely productive glory is what Bronco wants--and it clearly appears that it is--that's just INSANITY. And Lark isn't buying any of this fragile veneer what Bronco is defining as a successful-- "tougher THAN ALL OF US" qb at BYU.

Riley has been practically Glorified by Bronco to maintain that veneer and what exactly has he bought us??? A most commendable comeback vs USU last year and a bowl win. A few Other wins AND A MINUS FOUR!!

As for Munns, he hasn't showed much of a heartbeat since his mission return through his limited scrimmage playing times.

But to the question of WHY NO MAGIC?? An UNHOLY ALLIANCE between "i cant quit you" Bronco and "please let me play even though I'm 65% and totally drugged up" Riley.

I'd have gotten out of the way like the Heaps or Lark version as well. And if Lark lost all chance to play by talking a little negative a few weeks ago, sharing a little frustration, showing that he cares enough to whine a little, then shame, shame shame on this stinking coaching staff. It was well deserved.

I'm with you Spiff in a way. But Bronco had eyes for only one man.

:lol: sometimes the crazy posts are the funniest to read.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Actually, Riley should have gotten MORE reps in 2009. If coaches hadn't been so hell-bent on playing Jake that they didn't use the multiple opportunities in 2009 to see if Riley could actually be the QB of the future.



The current QB woes are in part due to coaches not using the plethora of garbagae time we had in 2009 to see if Riley could run the entire offense efficiently and effectively.



The coaches failed to make a decision coming out of spring ball in 2010 is what really doomed the 2010, 2011 and now 2012 seasons. There wasn't a wrong decision to make - other than to not make one.



Magic doesn't happen in a vacuum - at least not in football. It takes preparation and decision making. Our coaches failure to make decisions in 2009 and 2010 are hurting the program now. Our quarterbacks of the last two seasons inability to make simple plays is killing the team and leading to losses that we shouldn't have.

I agree 100%. I don't know why we didn't learn that lesson and we're not giving time to anyone now. I guess we could argue that in the Weber game they gave Hill/Lark some time but I don't know that this was intentional. Had Riley not been hit, it seems the coaches would have left him in. I'm not calling for any particular backup to get garbage time now. I'm just calling for someone to get some time or we'll continue to be in this position every year. It's very unusual to have qb's like Beck or Hall that miss very few games. We need backups with a few reps.



I really like Bronco but I just don't understand why he says and does what he does with Riley when there's 80+ other players on the team.

The sad truth is that garbage time is heading BYU's way in 2012, and would have been the ideal time to get Hill more game reps. But, can't happen now.



Just a clusterbomb of bad decisions parlaying themselves into bad scenarios.