CougarCorner
Sign in
Archived Topic

Shouldn't we be discussing the Firing of Dave Rose?

by frdbtr · 12/1/2012

Sponsored Advertisementad content
C
Cougest
Schmoe wrote:
Wait, we finished ranked #5 in the country? I must have missed that. Rose didn't lose to LMU at home last year? He didn't get the best player in the country as a recruit in Jimmer Fredette? He doesn't have Hawses and Emerys flowing to BYU (not to mention Mika)? Bronco didn't have a part in knocking Bradford out of the OK game by getting to him time and time again with HIS defensive scheme? Bronco's team don't overperform, so you were expecting the season we had in 2006? Rose hasn't lost in the conference tourney every year, even as a #1 seed? How is that NOT underperforming? Rose hasn't lost to mediocre teams already this year? Stop making excuses, there's an obvious double-standard.


Schmoe don't know! Where is it listed anywhere that Jimmer was the #1 recruit in high school basketball or even top 100 recruit out of high school? Hmmmmm. The reason Jimmer was the best player in college his senior year is because Rose not only coached him to be but put him in a system that allowed him to be! While we're on the subject, when has Bronco coached a BYU football player to win the heisman? When is the last time he has coached any player to win any national award? When has he had a BYU football player be drafted in the top 10?........Crickets! When's the last time he even had a player drafted?!?!?!? Did you know that BYU is one of the few D1 schools in the nation that has had more kids drafted into the NBA than the NFL? That's not a good thing for BYU or a thing of praise for Rose but rather a testament of Bronco's inability to raise the performance of his players. Where's the double standard now? I didn't realize that Mike, young haws or emery have played at BYU yet and been involved in rose's coaching record and team performance. That's nice to know that you are already watching games in the future. Don't you think a reason the haws family are coming to BYU is because their dad played there? Yes, he has some good recruits coming in now because he's been successful on the court......yet another accolade to his coaching performance. You're argument against Rose is actually arguing for him. The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. This argument is absurd and ridiculous. We actually have a good coach for basketball and all you guys can do is try to find fault with him.
S
Schmoe
We've had 140 players drafted into the NFL and 42 drafted into the NBA. Under Rose, we've had 2 players drafted into the NBA, and under Bronco, we've had 9 drafted into the NFL (COUGEST DON'T KNOW!). Bronco has coached a player who never has even seen football to be a first-rounder, and before you go off on his athleticism, Rose cut that same athlete from the basketball team twice. My point about the Haws boys was that Rose is getting good recruits. You really think that Jimmer was only Jimmer because of Rose? Sure, at any other school he would have ridden the pine or been a pass-first PG (eye roll). What's Rose been doing this year? Losing to poor teams, but everyone continues to blow sunshine on the basketball forum. There is a double-standard. It doesn't mean that we should call for Rose to be fired, but that perhaps our football coach ought to be treated a little more fairly.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
There is a double-standard. It doesn't mean that we should call for Rose to be fired, but that perhaps our football coach ought to be treated a little more fairly.

Again, it's all about PR, and what have you done for me lately. Basketball fans are already becoming disillusioned with this season. But Rose rarely says "You know that big coaching mistake where I was totally and completely wrong? I would do that same thing again, every single time!!"
C
Cougest
Schmoe wrote:
We've had 140 players drafted into the NFL and 42 drafted into the NBA. Under Rose, we've had 2 players drafted into the NBA, and under Bronco, we've had 9 drafted into the NFL (COUGEST DON'T KNOW!). Bronco has coached a player who never has even seen football to be a first-rounder, and before you go off on his athleticism, Rose cut that same athlete from the basketball team twice. My point about the Haws boys was that Rose is getting good recruits. You really think that Jimmer was only Jimmer because of Rose? Sure, at any other school he would have ridden the pine or been a pass-first PG (eye roll). What's Rose been doing this year? Losing to poor teams, but everyone continues to blow sunshine on the basketball forum. There is a double-standard. It doesn't mean that we should call for Rose to be fired, but that perhaps our football coach ought to be treated a little more fairly.




Correction, my previous statement meant to say more drafted players the last couple of years. It wasn't meant to imply all time history of the school. Last two years Bronco has had none, zip, zilch. Don't try and tell me that we didn't have the talent because there are guys that are playing now that obviously did (reynolds). How many of Bronco's players were even his recruits?

No, I don't think jimmer shinned only because of Rose. He obviously has talent. However, I do believe that Rose's coaching ability and system allowed Jimmer to maximize his potential, something that Bronco has failed to do with his players. You don't have a player win multiple awards for being the best player in the nation if you don't have all three of those components. Just look at what's going on with jimmer now if you need a real time update (eye roll). A shinning example in Bronco's case has the last name of Lark or even reynolds if you prefer. He is currently getting good recruits but his record isn't currently based off of high profile recruits that he has coming in but rather off of turning good into great and over instead of underachieving. Rose lost his best rebounders, defenders, and leading scorer. I don't think anybody expected the basketball team to blow everybody away this year. Even in football they give coaches some slack after loosing their biggest contributors while the team tries to find it's identity.

Regarding Ansah, is that really an argument. Basketball and football are two totally different sports that require different skill sets. Yes, ziggy is ziggy because of his athleticism, something the announcers point out every football game. If Bronco is such a great coach, why wasn't this guy listed as the starter this year when he's obviously the best talent on the team at that position? Why did it take an injury at that position in order for him to play? You got nothing!

There's no double standard here. Rose has results where Bronco does not. You're just reaching for something to complain about and only coming up with air. SCHMOE DON'T KNOW!!!
S
Schmoe
Sure, if you compare the last TWO years where BYU football has been down and where BYU has had their single best basketball player ever, BYU football will look worse (and, uh, we had a player drafted three seasons ago, nice homework on that one, Sherlock). It's nice to cherry-pick the years you want to support your argument, but in terms of overall coaching, BYU has had just over 3x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players, and under Bronco and Rose, BYU has had over 4x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players. Regarding Ziggy, he wasn't the best player at his position at the start of the year, but great coaching has brought him to where he is now (BTW, why didn't Jimmer start his first several years at BYU, he was clearly better than those in front of him...). If you don't think people were expecting good things from BYU basketball this year (not even blowing everyone away, just making the tourney, but nice strawman...), look at the "Will BYU make the tourney" poll and see how many fans thought BYU would be a contender this year. "Loosing" (hahaha!) your best players to graduation is something that coaches should foresee and be able to fill the spots, which Rose hasn't done well at all this year. Also, looking at Jimmer now, I see a guy who is getting tons of love from his fanbase and recognition from anyone who follows the NBA that he is playing very well IN SPITE of his coach. He shines no matter where he is, regardless of the coaching.
Sponsored Advertisementad content
S
SpiffCoug
Schmoe wrote:
What's Rose been doing this year? Losing to poor teams, but everyone continues to blow sunshine on the basketball forum. There is a double-standard. It doesn't mean that we should call for Rose to be fired, but that perhaps our football coach ought to be treated a little more fairly.

Rose is losing to poor teams?



We've lost to a 7-1 Notre Dame team, a 5-2 Iowa St team, and a 4-3 Florida St team. Some of those teams may not be great. But I don't think I'd call any of those teams poor. And not at this point in the seaosn.
S
SpiffCoug
Strike my last. Florida State just lost at home to Mercer of the Atlantic Sun conference. So I'll now call FSU a poor team.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
Sure, if you compare the last TWO years where BYU football has been down and where BYU has had their single best basketball player ever, BYU football will look worse.



BYU has had just over 3x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players, and under Bronco and Rose, BYU has had over 4x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players.

3 years of down football, and the Florida State/TCU blow-out games the year before that.



And comparing draft picks? Basketball has 15 players on the team, football has 105.
S
Schmoe
You're right, it's probably too early to judge exactly how strong these teams are, but FSU losing to South Alabama and now Mercer isn't going to look good on our resume.
S
Schmoe
Mars wrote:
Sure, if you compare the last TWO years where BYU football has been down and where BYU has had their single best basketball player ever, BYU football will look worse.



BYU has had just over 3x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players, and under Bronco and Rose, BYU has had over 4x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players.

3 years of down football, and the Florida State/TCU blow-out games the year before that.



And comparing draft picks? Basketball has 15 players on the team, football has 105.


I was responding to what was said about number of draft picks, please look at context. Also, if a top-25 finish is a year of down football, aren't we, as fans, a little spoiled?
Sponsored Advertisementad content
M
Mars


Sagarin has football #21 out of 120-ish, and basketball #66 out of 350-ish.
S
Schmoe
Mars wrote:


Sagarin has football #21 out of 120-ish, and basketball #66 out of 350-ish.


There are 240ish Division 1 college football teams.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
There are 240ish Division 1 college football teams.

And about 9000 high school football teams in the state of California.
S
Schmoe
The Sagarin football rankings consider all 246 division 1 teams, not just FBS teams. And I'm seeing BYU as 36 in football and 65 in basketball.
M
Mars
Schmoe wrote:
I'm seeing BYU as 36 in football and 65 in basketball.

His Predictor rankings are his most accurate. IE The football team has a strong power rating, but has too many losses to have a great season (Overall Sagarin).
Sponsored Advertisementad content
C
Cougarbib
Cougest wrote:
Whoa...hold it right there. True, BYU is a football school. However, Rose has had a BYU team, that he recruited, be ranked 5th in the nation legitimately and not exposed on national TV as in Bronco's case. He had a team that was a 1 player suspension away from a legitimate chance at a title. He's had a team that beat the #4 and #6 ranked team soundly on national TV. He doesn't get the type of talent in recruits as Bronco does. He shows adjustments almost every game based on talent and production not on principle and grit. He makes good in-game adjustments. He shows wise in-game coaching decisions unlike Bronco who goes for two in Boise because he saw Patterson with TCU do it the year before. Bronco's success has come from players recruited from other coaches. His highlight was a win against Oklahoma who's started QB was knocked out of the game. The difference is Rose's coaching acumen has had his teams over perform while Bronco's under performs. There is no double standard here!

So what you are saying is that Bronco is a better recruiter than Rose who apparently can't attract the same kind of talent. You are right. Frdbtr left out Coach Rose's recruiting deficiencies. Nice catch.



:)



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">
S
Schmoe
Mars wrote:
There are 240ish Division 1 college football teams.

And about 9000 high school football teams in the state of California.


There are 26 high school lacrosse teams in Rhode Island.
C
Cougest
Schmoe wrote:
Sure, if you compare the last TWO years where BYU football has been down and where BYU has had their single best basketball player ever, BYU football will look worse (and, uh, we had a player drafted three seasons ago, nice homework on that one, Sherlock).



Reading Comprehension isn't your thing is it Sherlock? Pretty sure BYU football has been down the last 3 years with this year included.



It's nice to cherry-pick the years you want to support your argument, but in terms of overall coaching, BYU has had just over 3x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players, and under Bronco and Rose, BYU has had over 4x the amount of football players drafted as basketball players.



I'm not cherry picking. I'm pointing out a sad statistic that only a select few school including BYU has. Sounds like you are the one that is being selective here.

Bronco doesn't have one single player that he has recruited and coached entirely be drafted. All of his draftees were not only not his recruits but had the opportunity to be coached up before he got there. To be fare, I do think he will have 2-3 drafted this year. This isn't an argument about BYU football vs basketball history it's about Bronco vs Rose. I don't understand why you are trying to bring Lavell and everybody elses record into this in-order to bolster your claim. If you want to get technical about it BYU football has on average 105 players per year while basketball has on average of 15. Bronco's percentage of NFL draft picks over the last 8 years is .0107% where as Rose's is .016%. So, if you want to go by the numbers you are throwing out sherlock, Rose wins hands down.



Regarding Ziggy, he wasn't the best player at his position at the start of the year, but great coaching has brought him to where he is now



Ha ha, nice, this is really comical. Thank you! Good coaching would have recognized his God give athletic ability that BYU hasn't seen at that spot during Bronco whole tenure and had him start the season rather than only doing so because of injury.



(BTW, why didn't Jimmer start his first several years at BYU, he was clearly better than those in front of him...).



This is what I mean by reaching for something and only coming up with air



If you don't think people were expecting good things from BYU basketball this year (not even blowing everyone away, just making the tourney, but nice strawman...), look at the "Will BYU make the tourney" poll and see how many fans thought BYU would be a contender this year.



Again, reading comprehension must not be your thing. I never said people didn't expect great things and that we didn't expect to make it to the tourney this year. By the way, the last time BYU started with this exact record they made it to the tourney. The season hasn't even begun and you are already counting them out.



"Loosing" (hahaha!) your best players to graduation is something that coaches should foresee and be able to fill the spots, which Rose hasn't done well at all this year.



Agreed. However, the spots we are needing filled are the spots that significant contributors had to call it quits due to injury. I hardly think that is Rose's fault.



Also, looking at Jimmer now, I see a guy who is getting tons of love from his fanbase and recognition from anyone who follows the NBA that he is playing very well IN SPITE of his coach. He shines no matter where he is, regardless of the coaching.



He does get tone of love from his BYU and LDS fan base and will where ever he goes or how he plays. I've read several Sacramento boards and they all state how he has been outplayed last year and this year by thomas. If he's shining why didn't he win the starting job? Why didn't he win rookie of the year? Why didn't he make it to the all-star game as part of the rookie squad? Why is his name being brought up constantly for trade rumors? Why have there been sports news article calling him a bust? Why is he only playing around 7 minutes a game? Do you honestly think that if he was playing like the best player to go into the draft in 2011 he'd only be playing 7 minutes a game? Have a taste of reality schmoe.
C
Cougest
Cougarbib wrote:
Whoa...hold it right there. True, BYU is a football school. However, Rose has had a BYU team, that he recruited, be ranked 5th in the nation legitimately and not exposed on national TV as in Bronco's case. He had a team that was a 1 player suspension away from a legitimate chance at a title. He's had a team that beat the #4 and #6 ranked team soundly on national TV. He doesn't get the type of talent in recruits as Bronco does. He shows adjustments almost every game based on talent and production not on principle and grit. He makes good in-game adjustments. He shows wise in-game coaching decisions unlike Bronco who goes for two in Boise because he saw Patterson with TCU do it the year before. Bronco's success has come from players recruited from other coaches. His highlight was a win against Oklahoma who's started QB was knocked out of the game. The difference is Rose's coaching acumen has had his teams over perform while Bronco's under performs. There is no double standard here!

So what you are saying is that Bronco is a better recruiter than Rose who apparently can't attract the same kind of talent. You are right. Frdbtr left out Coach Rose's recruiting deficiencies. Nice catch.



:)



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">




No, I am saying Rose hasn't been blessed with the type of athletes Bronco has. By the way, Rose's 2013 class is the #17th ranked class in the nation. I hardly think that is a recruiting deficiency Frdbtr!
S
Schmoe
You really think the reason Jimmer is playing 7 minutes a game is because he hasn't earned it or isn't good enough? Who needs a dose of reality? You really think it's only LDS fans that can see he has the 9th highest points-per-minute in the league? Perhaps he's the subject of trade rumors because Smart is a complete idiot and doesn't even know how to make a rotation, while other teams see value in him.



Forget it. I'm done wasting my time with someone who wouldn't be able to recognize a double-standard if they saw OJ Simpson and George Zimmerman standing side-by-side, can't spell words like lose and fair, and couldn't identify a Tampa 2 or Bear 46 if his life depended on it.
Page 2 of 3
This is an archived topic from the original CougarCorner forum. New replies are not accepted.