3 questions?

1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?



2. Should he?



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?



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Probably Not, Manziell is 1to 10, Te'o is 8.5 to 1, Klein is 50 to 1.

Yes, he's that good and everyone else except Manziell (Klein, Smith, Barkley) has choked

No, is this a trick question?

cornhole153 wrote:
1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?



2. Should he?



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?



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1. He very well could.



2. Probably. I don't think there's been any truly outstanding player. The Heisman is for the most outstanding collegel football player. It's not an MVP, but I do think the best player on the best team has a strong argument for the award. I would likely vote for him.



3. No. Bronco won't. He also never said Manti wouldn't start. Just essentially that he wouldn't gaurantee him a starting job prior to arriving at BYU. Manti could very well have wound up starting as a freshman. It might not have been every game, but I suspect he would have seen a ton of playing time as a freshman and every subsequent year at BYU.



Remember, the Manti Teo who is currently at Notre Dame and leading them to a potential national championship and from all accounts being a great representative of his faith, is not the same Manti Teo who took a trip to BYU four-plus years ago.



His trip to BYU and the incidents/fallout from that trip could likely have served as a wake up or moment in time where Manti made the decisions he did to become the leader he is now.



For all we know, if he still chose to come to BYU, maybe he doesn't make those changes.

1-He could but with the bias the SEC has, from SEC results mind you, I don't see him taking it over manziell. As previously stated, his odds don't reflect that he will.



2-There's no doubt he has been a great leader on and off the field, performed magnificently, and gotten proven results . I don't think anyone would be upset if he were to win.



3-No chance.

BerliNY wrote:
Yes, he's that good and everyone else except Manziell (Klein, Smith, Barkley) has choked

Technically, Manziel choked a couple of times early on. He almost handed Ole Miss a game with his turnovers, and he had 3 picks and no TDs in a 5 point loss to LSU.



He just get the benefit of the doubt because they happened early in his RS freshman campaign and he improved to where he beat #1 later on.

SpiffCoug wrote:

1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?



2. Should he?



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?



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3. No. Bronco won't. He also never said Manti wouldn't start. Just essentially that he wouldn't gaurantee him a starting job prior to arriving at BYU. Manti could very well have wound up starting as a freshman.

He actually did. This is from the the Jay Drew article:



Q: "Would he have started or had a chance to start as a freshman?"



Bronco: "Probably not. And here's the other thing: we told him that. We had five senior linebackers and we said, 'you probably won't start.' You could call that not very good recruiting, or just being truthful."



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cornhole153 wrote:

cornhole153 wrote:
1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?



2. Should he?



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?



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3. No. Bronco won't. He also never said Manti wouldn't start. Just essentially that he wouldn't gaurantee him a starting job prior to arriving at BYU. Manti could very well have wound up starting as a freshman.

He actually did. This is from the the Jay Drew article:



Q: "Would he have started or had a chance to start as a freshman?"



Bronco: "Probably not. And here's the other thing: we told him that. We had five senior linebackers and we said, 'you probably won't start.' You could call that not very good recruiting, or just being truthful."



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You and I have a different understanding of what the word "probably" means. In my native tongue (English) it means: "Most likely; presumably." It is equivocal, when something probably won't happen that means that it might actually happen. In English, when someone "probably" wouldn't start at linebacker their freshman year, it means that they might do so, but most likely or presumably they won't.... but again, they might.

troll score + 1

ABYUFAN wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:

1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?



2. Should he?



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?



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3. No. Bronco won't. He also never said Manti wouldn't start. Just essentially that he wouldn't gaurantee him a starting job prior to arriving at BYU. Manti could very well have wound up starting as a freshman.

He actually did. This is from the the Jay Drew article:



Q: "Would he have started or had a chance to start as a freshman?"



Bronco: "Probably not. And here's the other thing: we told him that. We had five senior linebackers and we said, 'you probably won't start.' You could call that not very good recruiting, or just being truthful."



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You and I have a different understanding of what the word "probably" means. In my native tongue (English) it means: "Most likely; presumably." It is equivocal, when something probably won't happen that means that it might actually happen. In English, when someone "probably" wouldn't start at linebacker their freshman year, it means that they might do so, but most likely or presumably they won't.... but again, they might.

Fair point. I should have said "probably".



Though, in your native tongue how does "probably not start" = "he wouldn't guarantee him a starting job"? If Bronco was merely refusing to guarantee a starting position, he'd just say that the best player will take the field.



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I don't think "probably not start" means "definitely won't see the field."



And from the quote from your article, the question was would he have started or had a chance to start? Was the "probably not" in response to the first question or second or both?



I think "probably not" is closer to not guaruanteeing a starting job than you think. Bronco has a LONG history of playing freshman defensive players. Teo would have been a key cog in the defense had he chosen to come here.



We also don't know everything Bronco told Teo. I don't see anything from the Bronco quote to make me believe Teo would not have seen the field and with productive play would have only seen that playing time increase. Even if he was just a freshman competing for reps with seniors.

SpiffCoug wrote:
I don't think "probably not start" means "definitely won't see the field."



And from the quote from your article, the question was would he have started or had a chance to start? Was the "probably not" in response to the first question or second or both?



I think "probably not" is closer to not guaruanteeing a starting job than you think. Bronco has a LONG history of playing freshman defensive players. Teo would have been a key cog in the defense had he chosen to come here.



We also don't know everything Bronco told Teo. I don't see anything from the Bronco quote to make me believe Teo would not have seen the field and with productive play would have only seen that playing time increase. Even if he was just a freshman competing for reps with seniors.

Jay's question was about starting, which Bronco says "probably not". Given that Manti was a beast at ND from pretty much day 1, it just seems clear now that his assessment of Manti's abilities was wrong.



What Bronco said to Manti re guarantees is really irrelevant.



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cornhole153 wrote:

I don't think "probably not start" means "definitely won't see the field."



And from the quote from your article, the question was would he have started or had a chance to start? Was the "probably not" in response to the first question or second or both?



I think "probably not" is closer to not guaruanteeing a starting job than you think. Bronco has a LONG history of playing freshman defensive players. Teo would have been a key cog in the defense had he chosen to come here.



We also don't know everything Bronco told Teo. I don't see anything from the Bronco quote to make me believe Teo would not have seen the field and with productive play would have only seen that playing time increase. Even if he was just a freshman competing for reps with seniors.

Jay's question was about starting, which Bronco says "probably not". Given that Manti was a beast at ND from pretty much day 1, it just seems clear now that his assessment of Manti's abilities was wrong.



What Bronco said to Manti re guarantees is really irrelevant.



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This is all such a bunch of crock. The fact that Manti Teo has had a wonderful year as a senior says NOTHING about whether he should would could have played at BYU as a freshman four years ago. People do change. They mature. They improve and it is something Manti has clearly done to his credit. To extrapolate his performance now to someting Bronco might have said is bogus and denies the hard work Manti has put in over the years to improve and get better. This thread is about some agenda you have against Bronco and not about anything else.

Let's see, Manti Teo was good enough to start (after 3 games) on a 6-6 Notre Dame team that finished unranked, so therefore he would have been clearly good enough to start on an 11-2 BYU team that finished #12. Makes sense.

Manti's freshman year stats are nothing to get excited over. He's a great player now, but he wasn't necessarily better than the starters we had at the time.



29 Solo tackles, 34 assisted tackles, 5.5 tackles for a loss, 1 sack and no INTs.

His freshman year was a little rocky. What you would expect from a freshman. But he would have played at the Y but not start. Second year he would have started.

scott715 wrote:
His freshman year was a little rocky. What you would expect from a freshman. But he would have played at the Y but not start. Second year he would have started.

He was a freshman all American and had the 3rd most tackles ever by a ND freshman. Also, he had only 3 less tackles than Shawn Doman, BYU's leading LB tackler, and did it in with much less playing time (didn't start first 3 games and didn't play a bowl game).



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Doman had 72 tackles, Teo had 63.

1. Does Manti win the Heisman this weekend?

He's a good candidate but I think someone else beats him out.



2. Should he?

Hard to argue with the stronger numbers some of those other guys put up.



3. If he does, will Bronco finally admit that Manti would have started at BYU and chose ND for football reasons, i.e., not to party?

No--not that it matters...

hawkwing wrote:
Doman had 72 tackles, Teo had 63.

Whoops, yep you are right. I thought he had 69 not 63. Still though that equals Clawson's total with less games played.



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cornhole153 wrote:

Doman had 72 tackles, Teo had 63.

Whoops, yep you are right. I thought he had 69 not 63. Still though that equals Clawson's total with less games played.



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I don't understand how you can keep fitting feet in that mouth. You must have a massive mouth and many many feet.



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Te'o played 12 games in '09, so did Doman and Clawson. Doman and Clawson each missed a game and were hampered in others due to injury, which is why they didn't have 13. Teo doesn't have 13 because ND didn't go bowling--the ND was shared s#!}less that they would lose and have a losing season at 6-7 so they declined all bowl invites, citing "unique circumstances" in fear of failure.



You're also ignorant of the fact that if you want to compare a Charlie Weiss ND linebacker to a BYU defensive player for stat comparison, you'll need to compare him to Andrew Rich and Scott Johnson as the BYU safeties have the same run-stopping assignment in Bronco's defense as the ND ILBs have.