Alma 14:11

snoscythe wrote:

Alma 46: 28 And now it came to pass that when Moroni had said these words he went forth, and also sent forth in all the parts of the land where there were dissensions, and gathered together all the people who were desirous to maintain their liberty, to stand against Amalickiah and those who had dissented, who were called Amalickiahites.



We desperately need to have a much heavier armed populace. Think of how many lives could have been saved in this horrific situation, if many more people were armed. and the others in the past. They could have saved a lot more lives. We have got to stop having weapon free zones or schools. We don't need to put police in every building, we need to empower those who are already there. We need free schools. Not gov schools, that the parents can control the policies, not the gov.



Twill never happen.

The problem I have with many quoting Alma 46 as a call to action/arms is that they get the context completely backwards. Captain Moroni was a military officer acting in his proper stewardship to call the populace to arms to defend the government against dissenters who would supplant the duly elected government. Alma 46 does not justify vigilante justice or rebellion--in fact, it deals with the government putting down rebellion in defense of family, liberty, and faith.



Too often people who quote Alma 46 sound more like Amalakiah than Captain Moroni.



A few weeks ago, Elder Holland shared this scripture with us in a training setting: "And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land." Mosiah 29:27 The pride cycle of the Book of Mormon is not just a cautionary tale for us individually in avoiding pride, it is a template for us to read the tea leaves and evaluate the progression of our own societies. Go back and read President Benson's opus "Beware of Pride", and read it with a mind toward the nation and society rather than the individual. He himself notes that "The scriptures abound with evidences of the severe consequences of the sin of pride to individuals, groups, cities, and nations."



Suddenly the closing warning that "God will have a humble people. Either we can choose to be humble or we can be compelled to be humble." bears a much more somber tone in light of the trajectory of American government and society in the last 30 years.

Unfortunately this is where we stand. We have made our bed so to speak as a nation, and I'm afraid we collectively have chosen iniquity.



But I also think you underestimate the freedoms and liberties that are being corroded. Our country is looking a lot more like Russia in 1910, ready to jump into a new form of government that led to the deaths of MILLIONS of innocents, than the USA founded by our forefathers. Again, we have chosen to be lazy and have not been vigilant in protecting from enemies both foreign and domestic.



Again though, I agree with you. The moral decline of this country does not give me much hope of protection or guidance from a loving Heavenly Father in regards to our nation.

urroner wrote:
This man, a man formerly of Ogden, puts everything into perspective.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcNEbszYlM0

ROBBIE PARKER, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM EMILIE PARKER: OK. So my name is Robbie Parker. My family is one of the families that lost a child yesterday in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings here in Connecticut. I've been contacted by so many people and agencies wanting to know how we're doing and I just thought that this might be the best way to share those feelings with everybody. First of all, I would really like to offer our deepest condolences to all of the families who were directly affected by this shooting.



It's an horrific tragedy, and we want everybody to know that our hearts and our prayers go out to them. This includes the family of the shooter. I can't imagine how hard this experience must be for you. And I want you to know that our family and our love and our support goes out to you as well. At this time, our thanks go out to so many people, so many friends and family. And complete strangers who we don't know. For all the love, condolences and is support that you have given to us.



My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing and giving her love and support to all those victims. Because that's the type of person that she is. Not because of any parenting that my wife and I could have done. But because those were the gifts that were given to her by her heavenly father. As the deep pain begins to settle into our hearts, we find comfort reflecting on the incredible person that Emilie was, and how many lives she was able to touch in her short time here on earth. Emilie was bright, creative and very loving. Emilie was always willing to try new things, other than food.



She loved to use her talents to touch the lives of everyone she came into contact with. She was an exceptional artist, and she always carried around her markers and pencils so that she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for those around her. I can't count the number of times Emilie noticed someone feeling sad or frustrated and would rush to find a piece of paper to draw them a picture or to write them an encouraging note. Emilie's card-making was expressed beautifully this last October when she placed a very special card that she had made into the casket with her grandpa, who also just recently died of a tragic accident.



Emilie was a mentor to her two little sisters in delighting and teaching them how to read, dance and find the simple joys in life. Emilie's laughter was infectious, and all those who had the pleasure to meet her would agree that this world has a better place because she has been in it. As we move on from what happened here, what happened to so many people, let it not turn into something that defines us. But something that inspires us to be better, to be more compassionate, and more humble people. Let us please keep the sentiments of love we feel for our families and the compassion that we feel for others, even complete strangers, and keep them with us at all times.



Not just in times of sorrow and tragedy. And may we do this so that we can better all of our communities and all of our cities and all our states so that we can make everyone everywhere in this country feel safe. Thank you. I would be happy to answer any questions, as long as I see them to be within reason.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



I was leaving to work, and she woke up before I left. And I've actually been teaching her Portuguese. And so our last conversation was in Portuguese. And she told me good morning, and asked how I was doing. And I said that I was doing well. She said that she loved me. And I gave her a kiss and I was out the door.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



The best way that I've been seeing that is I have two really good friends at home who have set up a Facebook page to help raise money for Emilie. And when I've gotten on that and just seen the number of people who have commented and expressed their condolences, it's been quite overwhelming.



UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Can you describe what your daughter looked like for us?



PARKER: There's lots of pictures on the Emilie Parker fund page on Facebook. She was beautiful. She was blonde, always smiling. Bright blue eyes.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



Here at the church last night, there was a special meeting, and I was given an opportunity to be able to speak at that, as well. And in that, I just mentioned that, you know, the person that chose to act in this way was acting with a God-given right that he was given by God to -- with his own free agency. And that free agency is given to all of us to act and choose to do whatever we want. And God can't take that away from us. And I know that that's something that he was given and that's what he chose to do with it.



And I know that God can't take that away. I'm not mad. Because I have my agency to make sure that I use this event to do what I can to do whatever I can. So, I want to make sure that my family and my wife and my daughters are taken care of and that if there's anything that I can do to help anybody at anytime, anywhere, that I would be willing to do that.



UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Mr. Parker, you talk about your daughter. Your other daughters, I wonder if you could talk about them.



PARKER: As un-cheesy as I can say that, she was their best friend. They were all born within three years of each other. So by law, they're very close. She was teaching my middle daughter to read. She would help my youngest daughter learn how to make things, show her how to do crafts. They looked up to her. And they looked to her when they needed comfort. Usually that's saved for a mom and dad. But it was really sweet to see the times when one of them would fall or one of them would get their feelings hurt, how they would run to Emilie to get support and hugs and kisses.



(INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, it's hard for me to talk about, because I was at work at the hospital. And the hospital was in lockdown, so I couldn't get to the school right away.



I love the people at the school. I love Emilie's teacher, and the classmates that we were able to get to know. I love all of them. And my prayers go out to all of those people.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Is there anything you want to share with the other parents?



PARKER: The only thing I can say to other parents is the comfort we can find, that at least we know there's other people that are in the same boat that we are, that there's other people that know how you're feeling. And even though we are going through it differently and our emotions might be different, and we're going to process this whole thing differently, we're in this together and we're forever linked by this event.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Have you spoken to your other children about what happened?



PARKER: Yes, we were able to -- you know, with the events that happened with my father-in-law recently, and this is unfortunately a topic that's been discussed in our family over the last couple months. So with my daughters, we have been able to express to them what happened. Their understanding is a little limited, of course. But they seem to get the fact that they have somebody that they're going to miss very much.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: The what? I'm sorry.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Emilie's teacher. PARKER: You know, with respect to her family, I'm not going to say her name or anything. I met her at parent-teacher conference a couple weeks ago, and was so impressed with the fact that she really seemed to know Emilie as a person, Emilie's likes and dislikes and things she was good at and things that frustrated her. And is the way she talked about Emilie like that, I know without a doubt, she knew all other 16 kids in the classroom the exact same.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, the word of this gets out in the afternoon, and our family is from out west. Getting them here in a timely manner was kind of difficult. The fact that, you know, airline agencies were bending over backwards and breaking rules, which they never do, was quite amazing. People -- just seeing my family in the airport and realizing that something was wrong, but not knowing exactly what was wrong and giving them hugs and their support, you know -- everything, from people getting out of line in the security line to let them pass and moving seats on the airplane so they could sit together, those kind of things were very greatly appreciated. And anybody that provided those for my family, I just thank you so much.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: She was the type of person that could just light up a room. She always had something kind to say about anybody. And her love and strength she gave us, and the example she showed to us is remarkable. She is an incredible person. And I'm so blessed to be her dad.



I guess that's it.



Yes?



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I don't know. I don't know how to get through something like this. My wife and I don't understand how to process all of this and how to get our lives going. You know, we find strength in our religion and in our faith, and in our family. And I think that everybody that's going through something like this has, hopefully, support with their family, and with what other means they can find. I just hope everybody can get the help they need.



Since nobody knows how to go through this, I think it's really important that people reach out to the services that have been provided to all of us for counseling and somebody to talk to and understanding how to talk to your children and those kind of things. I really hope that all of us utilize those things that have been offered to us.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I had a 3, 4 and 6-year-old.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION) PARKER: It went from something that, you know, I -- I can't imagine this is happening. This has to be some sort of mistake. What was hard, since I was at work, I was having to talk to my wife on the phone. And just trying to know what was the right thing to do. You know, we didn't -- I didn't think it was that big a deal at first. I thought, with the first reports that were coming in, it didn't sound like it was going to be as tragic as it was. And then as we weren't given information, it started to settle in that it was a much tougher experience for everybody. And so that was kind of what it was like for us.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I'm -- I'm proud to say that I'm a physician assistant and I work in the Danbury-Newborn Intensive Care Unit. I'm 30 years old.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: The best thing that I can think of to do to move on is to help other people. When you help other people, you feel better about yourself. And the more people help other people, then the more people are blessed. And when your life feels blessed, you feel like you can take on the world.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You work at the Danbury Hospital?



PARKER: Yes.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You work with newborns?



PARKER: Yes.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: I was at work when my wife called me. And then I was able to find a television and start trying to get any information I can.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Were you there when any of the children --



PARKER: I wasn't. I don't work in the emergency room, so I wasn't involved with any of that.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know what's interesting about that, my family just moved to Newtown about eight months ago, when I accepted the job here. So the impression I got from people on the east coast was a lot different from what I experienced when I got here, that's for sure. Everybody that -- everything that everybody was telling me out west was that I was in for a rude awakening. But the people here have been amazing. And I've never met so many people that were willing to help us when we moved here, to get established, to getting to know me and my family. I truly love it here. And I'm glad to be here.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION) PARKER: I keep hearing that. I haven't really had the television on much or anything like that. So I don't quite understand or grasp the grandness of the -- of everybody's support from around the world, other than just the feeling that we get with everybody's prayers.



UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE QUESTION)



PARKER: You know, you can never stop being the best parent you can be. You can always be better. You can always be more patient. You can always be more loving and understanding, and willing to accept your children for who they are. I really hope that as I continue to be a dad to my two children that I can just -- if anybody looks back on my life, the number-one thing they can say about me was that I was a great dad and that my children loved me because of the father I was.



Thanks, guys.

Thanks Urroner. Spiff and all--Here is a modern day Captain Moroni. This man lost his daughter and he speaks and acts with such charity and grace. His daughter was a beautiful little girl in her primary class at church and a beautiful,little girl in her family. In the evil of today we need more people like this good brother. I am amazed at and humbled by his words and actions. His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

totally agree boise, powerful stuff.

BoiseBYU wrote:


His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

http://www.jeffbenedict.com/index.php/blog/35-blog/317-grief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



More on the Robbie Parker story.

Ddawg wrote:

His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

Fair question. I have seen posts advocating that if more people were armed we'd be safer. I think we'd be safer if more of us were like this brother. If armed security at the school would have saved those children I'd support it. I do not think that a man with character, integrity, compassion and internal strength necessarily is going to arm himself with guns, so I do not understand your last comment to respond.

Wow, so.people with guns have no honor, integrity, character, or compassion. Very telling and ignorant comments.



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BoiseBYU wrote:

BoiseBYU wrote:


His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

Fair question. I have seen posts advocating that if more people were armed we'd be safer. I think we'd be safer if more of us were like this brother. If armed security at the school would have saved those children I'd support it. I do not think that a man with character, integrity, compassion and internal strength necessarily is going to arm himself with guns, so I do not understand your last comment to respond.

Ok - let me explain where I am coming from. First, I have spent my adult life dedicated to serving, protecting, and helping people. I served in the Army, worked for a Sheriff's Dept., and for a Fire Dept. I have been hospitalized and operated on 3 times from serious injuries - including being shot. I have a little bit of an idea of what I am talking about when it comes to crime, shootings, and dealing with suffering from violence, and stopping it.



1. Until the Millenium comes, there will be evil in this world. Evil men, and people with serious mental and emotional challenges will try to harm us and our loved ones - either by evil design - or because they cannot help themselves. These people and the challenges they present cannot all be met with love and understanding. Sometimes deadly force must be used to protect the innocent. Nothing else will suffice.



2. My admiration for Robbie Parker, my compassion for him, his wife, his surviving children, and all the other victim's of Newton, Conn., is deep. Because of my career, I have spent many, many hours with people who have suffered the loss of a loved one. It is tragic every time.



3. Yes we need more men like Robbie Parker and Captain Moroni. We need men with integrity, compassion, and character. But, having those traits does not mean we ignore the danger facing us. The world is a dangerous place. We must be prepared to protect the innocent, the young, the defenseless.



4. Yes I absolutely advocate more weapons to protect our society against evil people and the mentally unstable that try to take innocent life.



Real world examples:

Newtown, Conn. I'm sure you are aware that Adam Lanza was going from room to room, on a hunting safari, searching for people to kill - until the police arrived. As soon as someone with a gun was present, he turned a gun on himself and ended his life. An armed guard at the school would have made a difference.



San Antonio, Tx. Over the weekend, a Jessie Garcia, 19, went to a Chinese restaurant to shoot his girlfriend. He did not find her, and began shooting at other employees. He chased them into a movie theatre - where an off duty female Sheriff Sgt. (working as a security guard) chased him into a bathroom and shot him - ending his attack - protecting innocent life.



Oregon mall - Clackamas Town Center. The shooter - Jacob Roberts, 22, went into the mall to kill as many people as he could. He wounded a girl, and killed 2 adults. A very under-reported part of the story is how it ended. A civilian, Nick Meli, 22, had a concealed weapon permit - and was armed. When the shooting began, he drew his weapon and hid behind a pillar. The shooter saw Nick and his weapon - then shot himself and ended his life. Just the presence of someone with a weapon caused the shooter to take his life and end the killing spree - preventing more innocent people from injury and death. This detail has been largely ignored by the press.



Los Angeles - I have a friend that is a Deputy Sheriff. He was at church (not LDS). He was sitting in a pew, when a man several rows in front of him stood up, pulled out a pistol, and started yelling loudly, and threatening folks. My friend slipped his gun out and shot the crazy guy. No one else was hurt. Innocent lives were protected.



I want to be clear - I wish we lived in a kinder, gentler world. The reality is, we do not. Until the Lord comes, we must be prepared mentally, emotionally, and physically, with the proper weapons to protect our families, innocent people, and ourselves from evil and crazy people. The chances that we will personally experience anything like Newtown, Conn. is remote. But, it is going to happen again somewhere.



I advocate a citizenry that is prepared to stop the bad people from hurting innocents quickly, and effectively. Even Joseph Smith in Carthage jail had a pistol to protect the lives of his companions and himself. And, Joseph used that pistol, firing at the attackers in an attempt to stop the mobsters that took both his and Hyrum's life. I submit, we need to do all we can to be prepared. At the same time, we should all do all we can to be men of character, with integrity and compassion. The two efforts are not mutually exclusive.

hawkwing wrote:
Wow, so.people with guns have no honor, integrity, character, or compassion. Very telling and ignorant comments.



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Hawk I would not and did not say that. I said people,of high character do not necessarily buy guns and was in response to another's comment raising that point. Are ther people with high character who have guns? Absolutely. I know some. I'm sorry if I was unclear, assuming your post was directed at me, but if it was,I think you're straining to interpret my comment that way.

Ddawg wrote:

Ddawg wrote:

His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

Fair question. I have seen posts advocating that if more people were armed we'd be safer. I think we'd be safer if more of us were like this brother. If armed security at the school would have saved those children I'd support it. I do not think that a man with character, integrity, compassion and internal strength necessarily is going to arm himself with guns, so I do not understand your last comment to respond.

Ok - let me explain where I am coming from. First, I have spent my adult life dedicated to serving, protecting, and helping people. I served in the Army, worked for a Sheriff's Dept., and for a Fire Dept. I have been hospitalized and operated on 3 times from serious injuries - including being shot. I have a little bit of an idea of what I am talking about when it comes to crime, shootings, and dealing with suffering from violence, and stopping it.



1. Until the Millenium comes, there will be evil in this world. Evil men, and people with serious mental and emotional challenges will try to harm us and our loved ones - either by evil design - or because they cannot help themselves. These people and the challenges they present cannot all be met with love and understanding. Sometimes deadly force must be used to protect the innocent. Nothing else will suffice.



2. My admiration for Robbie Parker, my compassion for him, his wife, his surviving children, and all the other victim's of Newton, Conn., is deep. Because of my career, I have spent many, many hours with people who have suffered the loss of a loved one. It is tragic every time.



3. Yes we need more men like Robbie Parker and Captain Moroni. We need men with integrity, compassion, and character. But, having those traits does not mean we ignore the danger facing us. The world is a dangerous place. We must be prepared to protect the innocent, the young, the defenseless.



4. Yes I absolutely advocate more weapons to protect our society against evil people and the mentally unstable that try to take innocent life.



Real world examples:

Newtown, Conn. I'm sure you are aware that Adam Lanza was going from room to room, on a hunting safari, searching for people to kill - until the police arrived. As soon as someone with a gun was present, he turned a gun on himself and ended his life. An armed guard at the school would have made a difference.



San Antonio, Tx. Over the weekend, a Jessie Garcia, 19, went to a Chinese restaurant to shoot his girlfriend. He did not find her, and began shooting at other employees. He chased them into a movie theatre - where an off duty female Sheriff Sgt. (working as a security guard) chased him into a bathroom and shot him - ending his attack - protecting innocent life.



Oregon mall - Clackamas Town Center. The shooter - Jacob Roberts, 22, went into the mall to kill as many people as he could. He wounded a girl, and killed 2 adults. A very under-reported part of the story is how it ended. A civilian, Nick Meli, 22, had a concealed weapon permit - and was armed. When the shooting began, he drew his weapon and hid behind a pillar. The shooter saw Nick and his weapon - then shot himself and ended his life. Just the presence of someone with a weapon caused the shooter to take his life and end the killing spree - preventing more innocent people from injury and death. This detail has been largely ignored by the press.



Los Angeles - I have a friend that is a Deputy Sheriff. He was at church (not LDS). He was sitting in a pew, when a man several rows in front of him stood up, pulled out a pistol, and started yelling loudly, and threatening folks. My friend slipped his gun out and shot the crazy guy. No one else was hurt. Innocent lives were protected.



I want to be clear - I wish we lived in a kinder, gentler world. The reality is, we do not. Until the Lord comes, we must be prepared mentally, emotionally, and physically, with the proper weapons to protect our families, innocent people, and ourselves from evil and crazy people. The chances that we will personally experience anything like Newtown, Conn. is remote. But, it is going to happen again somewhere.



I advocate a citizenry that is prepared to stop the bad people from hurting innocents quickly, and effectively. Even Joseph Smith in Carthage jail had a pistol to protect the lives of his companions and himself. And, Joseph used that pistol, firing at the attackers in an attempt to stop the mobsters that took both his and Hyrum's life. I submit, we need to do all we can to be prepared. At the same time, we should all do all we can to be men of character, with integrity and compassion. The two efforts are not mutually exclusive.

Well stated. I agree. I think additionally and you may disagree but that various reasonable measures of gun control could be part of the solution. It is not THE solution but one part of the puzzle.

Boise, now I'm lost....



I've bought guns. That makes me not of high character? My Father, grandfathers and their ancestors all were "gun buyers". But this trait alone makes them of low character? Guns are not the problem. No one in my family line has killed anyone, and there has been plenty of wheeling and dealing when it comes to guns.



Part of me wants to sit back and watch this whole "progressive" movement go forward. It will fail, just as it did in Russia and numerous other countries. Mortality will increase, quality of living will decrease and the middle class will cease to exist. But at least no one will have guns. No one worth their salt that is.



Just saw that KSL dropped their online sales of guns. Ridiculous. I can't count the number of times that I thought "man, these guys needed some guns" while walking through a Ukrainian museum and viewing the atrocities that were caused by both Nazis and Soviets. 7 million people died, after literally eating their children, of starvation because Stalin took their food from them at gunpoint.

I agree that we need gun control - but it needs to be well thought out & not a knee jerk reaction. There are already over 20,000 gun laws on the books right now.



Here's the kind of gun control we need (IMHO) - 1. People with criminal records cannot own guns. 2. People that have been deemed mentally unstable cannot own guns. 3. People that own guns MUST control them - own a safe (so they cannot be stolen by criminals, or mentally unstable family members).



The guns that Adam Lanza used were legally purchased and legally owned by his mother. Where everything went wrong - Adam had access to those guns. Mom needed a safe, or to move those guns out of her house (to a friend's house).



Eliminating, or outlawing a type of weapon (semi-automatic rifles that look like a military weapon) is not the answer. I can use a pump 12 ga. shotgun with devastating effect. I can shoot and reload with a 6 gun revolver about as fast as a semi-auto pistol (using speed loaders). The effort by Feinstein and the left is misguided and will not work. Again, look at all the laws outlawing marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroine, etc. Are they effective? No.



The focus needs to be on the bad guy - and stopping him from getting a gun - and stopping him quickly if he tries to use a gun (armed citizenry that are trained). Why? The police cannot be everywhere, doing everything. Especially with all the budget cuts - cities are cutting back - police are getting laid off and hours cut. Responsible, stable citizens are part of the solution to have a safe society.



Boise - I think you're a good man. I hope I do not come across too harsh in my posts. I am not cynical. I've just seen a lot of bad, hurt, bloodshed and evil in my life. I've gone to bed many times with tears silently welling up because of the evil that I see. I want to do all I can to be part of a solution. Individually the effort looks insignificant - seemingly so. Collectively, we make a difference.

BroncoBot wrote:
Boise, now I'm lost....



I've bought guns. That makes me not of high character? My Father, grandfathers and their ancestors all were "gun buyers". But this trait alone makes them of low character? Guns are not the problem. No one in my family line has killed anyone, and there has been plenty of wheeling and dealing when it comes to guns.



Part of me wants to sit back and watch this whole "progressive" movement go forward. It will fail, just as it did in Russia and numerous other countries. Mortality will increase, quality of living will decrease and the middle class will cease to exist. But at least no one will have guns. No one worth their salt that is.



Just saw that KSL dropped their online sales of guns. Ridiculous. I can't count the number of times that I thought "man, these guys needed some guns" while walking through a Ukrainian museum and viewing the atrocities that were caused by both Nazis and Soviets. 7 million people died, after literally eating their children, of starvation because Stalin took their food from them at gunpoint.

Please read my posts. I did NOT say that people of high character do not buy guns. I said that people of high character do not necessarily buy guns. I am not sure why Hawk said what he said. It is wrong and does not represent what I said.

BoiseBYU wrote:

BoiseBYU wrote:


His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

Fair question. I have seen posts advocating that if more people were armed we'd be safer. I think we'd be safer if more of us were like this brother. If armed security at the school would have saved those children I'd support it. I do not think that a man with character, integrity, compassion and internal strength necessarily is going to arm himself with guns, so I do not understand your last comment to respond.

So, if a more men were like this man, yet did not arm themselves, how exactly would that make us safer? A wonderfully just and righteous man can and will be killed by a bullet just as much as an okay fella.

Schmoe wrote:

Ddawg wrote:

His example and actions will do much much more than arming more people, with more weapons would ever hope to do.

I applaud this good brother and I have deep empathy for his loss, and everyone else in Newtown, Conn.



But, I don't quite understand your statement. You would not have wanted armed security at the school that could have prevented the loss of 26 innocent people in Newtown, Conn? Do you feel that if a man has character, compassion, integrity and internal strength he would not arm himself and defend innocent people or his family? Your comment is puzzling.

Fair question. I have seen posts advocating that if more people were armed we'd be safer. I think we'd be safer if more of us were like this brother. If armed security at the school would have saved those children I'd support it. I do not think that a man with character, integrity, compassion and internal strength necessarily is going to arm himself with guns, so I do not understand your last comment to respond.

So, if a more men were like this man, yet did not arm themselves, how exactly would that make us safer? A wonderfully just and righteous man can and will be killed by a bullet just as much as an okay fella.

I think that he's saying that if we replace bad guys with good guys there will be less violence.

Sure, if everyone was good, the world would be good. But that will, sadly, not happen. What can happen, though, is us preparing ourselves to protect ourselves and those we love.

Schmoe wrote:
Sure, if everyone was good, the world would be good. But that will, sadly, not happen. What can happen, though, is us preparing ourselves to protect ourselves and those we love.

If you want a great example - look at Joseph Smith - a prophet of God. In Carthage Jail, Joseph fully understood the dangers facing them. He knew he was going like a lamb to the slaughter.



Did Joseph just bow his head and wait for the executioner? No. Joseph had a pistol, a six shooter in jail - and he used it. He opened the door and fired down the hall at his attackers to defend the lives of his companions and himself. Joseph did what we all should do, live righteously, honestly assess the risks, and do our best to defend innocent lives from evil doers. Joseph was armed with truth, righteousness, and a weapon.

Schmoe wrote:
Sure, if everyone was good, the world would be good. But that will, sadly, not happen. What can happen, though, is us preparing ourselves to protect ourselves and those we love.

Another legitimate question. More good people raising good families that are less violent I think may save more than flooding the country with arms, some of which will fall into evil or deranged hands. I do not deny nor dispute any person's decision to have a firearm to protect themselves or their families and do not pretend that I know all the answers.

The question about flooding the USA with guns - it has already happened. Nobody knows the exact number of how many guns are really out there. Not all guns are registered.



The FBI estimates there are about 200 million guns. In 1995 the BATFE estimated there were about 223 million guns in the USA. About 1 in 4 people own a gun. A gun-owner, on the average, owns 4 guns. So, basically there is 1 gun in the USA, for every man, woman, and child. That brings to gun total up to roughly 310 million people - maybe.



We know that making something illegal does not work. Look at Prohibition and alcohol. That misguided effort created a crime spree with gangs and outlaws that is legendary. As I have previously pointed out, look at the effort to outlaw marijuana, cocaine, meth, etc. Any of us can get illegal drugs any day of the week if we want.



The only question that really remains is - what are you going to do to protect your family. It's a personal choice.



My question is - why aren't we talking about outlawing cars? How many people are killed every year on our roads? It fluctuates between 40,000 - 50,000. That is outrageous.

Ddawg wrote:
The question about flooding the USA with guns - it has already happened. Nobody knows the exact number of how many guns are really out there. Not all guns are registered.



The FBI estimates there are about 200 million guns. In 1995 the BATFE estimated there were about 223 million guns in the USA. About 1 in 4 people own a gun. A gun-owner, on the average, owns 4 guns. So, basically there is 1 gun in the USA, for every man, woman, and child. That brings to gun total up to roughly 310 million people - maybe.



We know that making something illegal does not work. Look at Prohibition and alcohol. That misguided effort created a crime spree with gangs and outlaws that is legendary. As I have previously pointed out, look at the effort to outlaw marijuana, cocaine, meth, etc. Any of us can get illegal drugs any day of the week if we want.



The only question that really remains is - what are you going to do to protect your family. It's a personal choice.



My question is - why aren't we talking about outlawing cars? How many people are killed every year on our roads? It fluctuates between 40,000 - 50,000. That is outrageous.

Cars don't kill people. People kill people ;) Seriously, I think some of your suggestions above would help. I think there might be other things to help.