Hurry and pass gun control before we have time to read it!

BroncoBot wrote:

So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Actually, banning etoh and extra-marital sex would change nothing. People would do it anyway, and it would create even a stronger push for the stuff by some. Non of these topics (guns, etoh, sex) should be pushed on people through legislation. These are topics for religious institutions. If someone believes extramarital sex and partaking of alcohol are part of their pursuit of life liberty and pursuit of happiness, then by all means go for it. Generally, people know better, and will have to answer for it with the consequences that follow.

Exactly my point when I said "if you could do it" the fact is that government cannot do it as has been shown with Prohibition. But if the world did less drinking and sexing it up, it would be a far better place to live, as can be proven by stats about Mormons.

hawkwing wrote:
So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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cornhole153 wrote:

So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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Neither do hats or open-toed shoes, therefore, we should be pursuing a nation-wide ban on those in conjunction with the gun ban?

snoscythe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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Neither do hats or open-toed shoes, therefore, we should be pursuing a nation-wide ban on those in conjunction with the gun ban?

Don't forget candles, food, and women in pants.

cornhole153 wrote:

So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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ok, so your position is no guns in LDS churches. Got it. No disagreement there.

hawkwing wrote:

cornhole153 wrote:

So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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Neither do hats or open-toed shoes, therefore, we should be pursuing a nation-wide ban on those in conjunction with the gun ban?

Don't forget candles, food, and women in pants.

The church bans hats, open-toed shoes, candles, food and women in pants on BYU campus and in student housing?



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BroncoBot wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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ok, so your position is no guns in LDS churches. Got it. No disagreement there.

Yep--the church has a strict ban on guns (except for on duty officers that are required to carry) on their properties.



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cornhole153 wrote:

snoscythe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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Neither do hats or open-toed shoes, therefore, we should be pursuing a nation-wide ban on those in conjunction with the gun ban?

Don't forget candles, food, and women in pants.

The church bans hats, open-toed shoes, candles, food and women in pants on BYU campus and in student housing?



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I apologize for responding to your most recently stated argument and not this new argument/definition. My bad.



Before we continue, let's first pin your position down so we don't continue with needless strawmen and red herrings like your most recent. Your earlier point was:

Point was about the Church's views on guns in their buildings.

If that's no longer your point and/or definition, let us know, because if you have now expanded your strawman to be items banned in each of the following (i) in churches, (ii) on BYU campus in general, and (iii) in student housing, then we can certainly come up with a list that demonstrates the absurdity of that position as well.....like candles--not permitted in church, in student housing, and no open flames permitted on campus.

snoscythe wrote:

hawkwing wrote:

cornhole153 wrote:

So in other words we should ban alcohol and extra-marital sex. I guarantee that if you could do that it would solve far more deaths than banning guns, but for some reason limbs don't seem interested in actually preventing deaths.

Yes, those are other words, but I never suggested that the Church's policy is to legislate guns bans, as we know the Church mostly stays out of politics. Nevertheless the Church has made itself clear in that guns have no place on the houses of the Lord.



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Neither do hats or open-toed shoes, therefore, we should be pursuing a nation-wide ban on those in conjunction with the gun ban?

Don't forget candles, food, and women in pants.

The church bans hats, open-toed shoes, candles, food and women in pants on BYU campus and in student housing?



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I apologize for responding to your most recently stated argument and not this new argument/definition. My bad.



Before we continue, let's first pin your position down so we don't continue with needless strawmen and red herrings like your most recent. Your earlier point was:

Point was about the Church's views on guns in their buildings.

If that's no longer your point and/or definition, let us know, because if you have now expanded your strawman to be items banned in each of the following (i) in churches, (ii) on BYU campus in general, and (iii) in student housing, then we can certainly come up with a list that demonstrates the absurdity of that position as well.....like candles--not permitted in church, in student housing, and no open flames permitted on campus.

Wow you really nailed me there on expanding my argument. Looking back i went all the way from stating that the church bans guns in all their buildings to the church bans guns at BYU and BYU student housing. Good thing you pinned me down now or I might even have gone so far as including temples, seminaries and the church office building as the church's buildings.



And yes, candles are a net hazard--like guns--my point.



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cornhole153 wrote:

Wow you really nailed me there on expanding my argument. Looking back i went all the way from stating that the church bans guns in all their buildings to the church bans guns at BYU and BYU student housing. Good thing you pinned me down now or I might even have gone so far as including temples, seminaries and the church office building as church buildings.



And yes, candles are a net hazard--like guns--my point.

So, your point is? What? Because the Church leadership says it's inappropriate for civilians to bring a concealed weapon - even though they have a CCW and it is lawful for them to do so - you are insinuating the LDS Church is anti-gun ownership and anti-2nd Amendment?



It's also inappropriate to walk into Sacrament meeting with a large pepperoni pizza. So, using your logic, are we then to conclude that LDS Church leadership is anti-pepperoni pizza?

cornhole153 wrote:

I agree with you though, the church wants to limit their liability, it's just in their calculation it seems guns don't make you safer.

Your conclusion is completely erroneous. The Church's position that they ask non L.E. members of the Church to not bring their concealed weapons to Church does not mean the Church has made any conclusion about guns making you safe or not safer. That is your conclusion.



Please show any statement from the Church Leadership - stating that owning a gun makes you less safe. Support your statement with documentation please.

It appears from the posts from mr. cornhole, that he is anti-Second Amendment, and anti-gun ownership. If that conclusion is wrong, please clarify your position.



But a recent Rasmussen poll of 1,000 adults, Jan. 16-17, 2013 about gun control laws is interesting. They asked if it's more important for the govt. to create more gun control laws, or more important enforce existing gun laws.



Results?

32% of American adults believe it is more important to create new gun laws.

57% of American adults believe it is more important to enforce existing gun laws.

11% are not sure (and are Yewts ;) )

We don't have time and resources to enforce the existing gun laws. That's obviously why we need to make more.

Ddawg wrote:

Wow you really nailed me there on expanding my argument. Looking back i went all the way from stating that the church bans guns in all their buildings to the church bans guns at BYU and BYU student housing. Good thing you pinned me down now or I might even have gone so far as including temples, seminaries and the church office building as church buildings.



And yes, candles are a net hazard--like guns--my point.

So, your point is? What? Because the Church leadership says it's inappropriate for civilians to bring a concealed weapon - even though they have a CCW and it is lawful for them to do so - you are insinuating the LDS Church is anti-gun ownership and anti-2nd Amendment?



It's also inappropriate to walk into Sacrament meeting with a large pepperoni pizza. So, using your logic, are we then to conclude that LDS Church leadership is anti-pepperoni pizza?

That guns (in the Church's view) are a safety hazard to people in their buildings. I agree with the church, and that's why I don't allow guns in my house.



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hawkwing wrote:
We don't have time and resources to enforce the existing gun laws. That's obviously why we need to make more.

I agree, we definitely need to enforce the laws we have now.



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Ddawg wrote:

I agree with you though, the church wants to limit their liability, it's just in their calculation it seems guns don't make you safer.

Your conclusion is completely erroneous. The Church's position that they ask non L.E. members of the Church to not bring their concealed weapons to Church does not mean the Church has made any conclusion about guns making you safe or not safer. That is your conclusion.



Please show any statement from the Church Leadership - stating that owning a gun makes you less safe. Support your statement with documentation please.

Why else would the Church go to such lengths to ban concealed guns from its buildings?



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Bottom line. Treating guns as the problem and cause of violence and trying to curtail them is not going to stop gun violence nor violence in general.



Until we start dealing with the people who are using these violent weapons (which they clearly are and were designed to be such) we won't save the lives we're trying protect. If we were really into protecting lives, there would be better places to start than gun control.



Until we as a society start owning up to our social issues and teaching our children right from wrong and holding them accountable and punishing them when the choose the wrong these things will continue to happen.



As long as we remain in a society of relative ethics and fear of offending someone and not teaching people to follow the Savior we can't stop the tide that is overtaking us.

cornhole153 wrote:

We don't have time and resources to enforce the existing gun laws. That's obviously why we need to make more.

I agree, we definitely need to enforce the laws we have now.



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Then why don't we start there?

cornhole153 wrote:

cornhole153 wrote:

I agree with you though, the church wants to limit their liability, it's just in their calculation it seems guns don't make you safer.

Your conclusion is completely erroneous. The Church's position that they ask non L.E. members of the Church to not bring their concealed weapons to Church does not mean the Church has made any conclusion about guns making you safe or not safer. That is your conclusion.



Please show any statement from the Church Leadership - stating that owning a gun makes you less safe. Support your statement with documentation please.

Why else would the Church go to such lengths to ban concealed guns from its buildings?



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You still haven't shown that the Church has asked guns to be prohibited from any building outside of Utah either.

SpiffCoug wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
We don't have time and resources to enforce the existing gun laws. That's obviously why we need to make more.

I agree, we definitely need to enforce the laws we have now.



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Then why don't we start there?

I agree that's where we should start, but just not where we stop.



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