Supreme Court and Gay Marriage

jvquarterback wrote:

Should be noted that while the federal aspects of DOMA are down, the provision providing that states and territories have the right to deny recognition of other States' same-sex marriages was not at issue and not affected by today's Windsor decision, so the FFC battle will still need to be fought. It wasn't before the Court in Windsor as the plaintiff was married to her partner in Canada---not a State or territory (although some might argue that ;) ).



There is a lot of States's Rights language in Windsor, so it is too hard to read the tea leaves at this point on that surviving aspect of DOMA.

Kennedy basically said it's going down with the next case that brings that issue up.

DarthMagnus wrote:

Aren't those in favor of gay marriage actually condoning sin? Aren't they actually asking for approval of their conduct?



In the LDS Church you are ONLY allowed to have sexual relations with your husband or wife to whom you are LEGALLY and LAWFULLY wedded.



You can't just go in your backyard with your girlfriend, exchange some vows you each wrote and then go upstairs and get it on.



By allowing gay marriage you are saying that sexual relations between two members of the same sex is proper and not wrong.



Homosexual conduct is wrong, immoral and sinful. Those who support gay marriage are holding apostate views. There is no other way to describe it.

So, the church holds that masturbation is wrong. Should I, as a practicing Mormon, feel the need to support government intervention in that issue as well? What about porn? Alcohol? More than one earring? Taking the lords name in vane? Worshiping idols? Worshiping false gods? Businesses that are open on Sunday?



We seem to "allow" plenty of stuff that we disagree to exist in our society without personally condoning or agreeing with it. You seem to imply quite heavily that it is a mormon's duty to attempt to legislate the entire religion onto the rest of society.

imuakahuku wrote:

You miss the whole point of Gay Marriage.

1st. Wickedness never was happiness. It is contrary to natural and eternal law and thus people who ingage in this will never find true hapiness. They are trying to get society to ease this burden but no amount of legislation will ever do so.

2nd. They attack marriage because it has always been religious in nature. Civil Unions just wouldn't do even though they gave gays everything they are demanding. They will sue and try to force every religion to "respect" their new rights through litigation and intimidation. But again this will never ease them of this burden. Sin cannot be rationalized away. It must be repented from. I heard a "Gay" leader on a radio show and the host very alertly and in tune with this asked point blank will you leave the pastors alone that won't marry gay couples? The person would not answer. Because they will not leave them alone. They will hunt down every last religious leader calling homosexual acts a sin. What I would like to see is these lefties go to one of their other lefty groups and demand inclusion. Maybe say the Muslim's.

hawkwing wrote:
I think this conference pretty much answered the question of whether faithful members could support changing laws to allow gay marriage and be in concert with the Lord, if there was any question before.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a single, undeviating standard of sexual morality: intimate relations are proper only between a man and a woman in the marriage relationship prescribed in God’s plan. Such relations are not merely a curiosity to be explored, an appetite to be satisfied, or a type of recreation or entertainment to be pursued selfishly. They are not a conquest to be achieved or simply an act to be performed. Rather, they are in mortality one of the ultimate expressions of our divine nature and potential and a way of strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife. We are agents blessed with moral agency and are defined by our divine heritage as children of God—and not by sexual behaviors, contemporary attitudes, or secular philosophies.

We live in a very dangerous world that threatens those things that are most spiritual. The family, the fundamental organization in time and eternity, is under attack from forces seen and unseen. The adversary is about. His objective is to cause injury. If he can weaken and destroy the family, he will have succeeded.



Latter-day Saints recognize the transcendent importance of the family and strive to live in such a way that the adversary cannot steal into our homes. We find safety and security for ourselves and our children in honoring the covenants we have made and living up to the ordinary acts of obedience required of the followers of Christ.

Alma taught that “the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.” In order to understand this, we must separate the sin from the sinner.



For example, when they brought before the Savior a woman taken in adultery, obviously guilty, He dismissed the case with five words: “Go, and sin no more.” That is the spirit of His ministry.



Tolerance is a virtue, but like all virtues, when exaggerated, it transforms itself into a vice. We need to be careful of the “tolerance trap” so that we are not swallowed up in it. The permissiveness afforded by the weakening of the laws of the land to tolerate legalized acts of immorality does not reduce the serious spiritual consequence that is the result of the violation of God’s law of chastity.

SpiffCoug wrote:
Emphasis added

Elder David A. Bednar, of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/we-believe-in-being-chaste?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a single, undeviating standard of sexual morality: intimate relations are proper only between a man and a woman in the marriage relationship prescribed in God’s plan. Such relations are not merely a curiosity to be explored, an appetite to be satisfied, or a type of recreation or entertainment to be pursued selfishly. They are not a conquest to be achieved or simply an act to be performed. Rather, they are in mortality one of the ultimate expressions of our divine nature and potential and a way of strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife. We are agents blessed with moral agency and are defined by our divine heritage as children of God—and not by sexual behaviors, contemporary attitudes, or secular philosophies.

Elder Boyd K. Packer, of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/these-things-i-know?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We live in a very dangerous world that threatens those things that are most spiritual. The family, the fundamental organization in time and eternity, is under attack from forces seen and unseen. The adversary is about. His objective is to cause injury. If he can weaken and destroy the family, he will have succeeded.



Latter-day Saints recognize the transcendent importance of the family and strive to live in such a way that the adversary cannot steal into our homes. We find safety and security for ourselves and our children in honoring the covenants we have made and living up to the ordinary acts of obedience required of the followers of Christ.

Alma taught that “the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.” In order to understand this, we must separate the sin from the sinner.



For example, when they brought before the Savior a woman taken in adultery, obviously guilty, He dismissed the case with five words: “Go, and sin no more.” That is the spirit of His ministry.



Tolerance is a virtue, but like all virtues, when exaggerated, it transforms itself into a vice. We need to be careful of the “tolerance trap” so that we are not swallowed up in it. The permissiveness afforded by the weakening of the laws of the land to tolerate legalized acts of immorality does not reduce the serious spiritual consequence that is the result of the violation of God’s law of chastity.

Furthermore, many of the social restraints which in the past have helped to reinforce and to shore up the family are dissolving and disappearing. The time will come when only those who believe deeply and actively in the family will be able to preserve their families in the midst of the gathering evil around us.



Whether from inadvertence, ignorance, or other causes, the efforts governments often make (ostensibly to help the family) sometimes only hurt the family more. There are those who would define the family in such a nontraditional way that they would define it out of existence. The more governments try in vain to take the place of the family, the less effective governments will be in performing the traditional and basic roles for which governments are formed in the first place.



Whether we like it or not, so many of the difficulties which beset the family today stem from the breaking of the seventh commandment (see Ex. 20:14). Total chastity before marriage and total fidelity after are still the standard from which there can be no deviation without sin, misery, and unhappiness. The breaking of the seventh commandment usually means the breaking of one or more homes.

We of all people, brothers and sisters, should not be taken in by the specious arguments that the family unit is somehow tied to a particular phase of development a mortal society is going through. We are free to resist those moves which downplay the significance of the family and which play up the significance of selfish individualism. We know the family to be eternal. We know that when things go wrong in the family, things go wrong in every other institution in society.



Those who, whether in ignorance or malice, attack the family are setting in motion an awful and needless cycle of misery and despair, for they will search in vain and pain for substitutes, and the wisdom of the worldly wise shall perish publicly for their folly concerning the family.



The decline in many of our families is occurring at a time when the nations of the world are moving into some of the most difficult times known.



Permissiveness will not pull us through such crises. Materialism will not sustain us, for moth and rust will still lay waste and corrupt all mortal treasures.



Our political institutions—parliaments, congresses, and assemblies—cannot rescue us if our basic institution, the family, is not intact. Peace treaties cannot save us when there is hostility instead of love in the home. Unemployment programs cannot rescue us when many are no longer taught how to work or do not have the opportunity to work or the inclination, in some cases, to do so. Law enforcement cannot safeguard us if too many people are unwilling to discipline themselves or be disciplined.

But how many of us realize how serious this conflict is? Do we measure its effect upon our own family circles? Do we understand what the devil is trying to do to us? Do we recognize his evil emissaries for what they are when they openly assail us or when they seek deceitfully to seduce us quietly?



Seduction is his greatest weapon. Do we realize that? I repeat: seduction is the greatest weapon of the devil. It is alluring; it falsely appears to be advantageous and desirable. He would have us think that bitter is sweet, that black is white, that sin is acceptable, that virtue is obsolete, archaic, and prudish.



Because he revels in filth, he would tell us that to be clean is some naive concept of our grandmother’s age which does not apply in this enlightened day. He says that evil is good and that standards have been relaxed. “Go your way,” he says; “fear no consequences; do your own thing; have fun; express your basest desires if you wish, and let yourselves go!” That is his philosophy.



Do we recognize it when it is flung at us by our angry foes or when it comes with a soft voice and a disarming smile? Do we truly recognize evil when we see it? Do we really know right from wrong? If we do not, then let us hasten to learn from our Church leaders. They will tell us quickly and plainly.



If we do know what is right, have we the courage to stand up for it, to defend virtue, to declare the validity of our faith, to oppose false teachings, and to fight the unpopular battle? Have we the moral stamina to confront any and all opportunities and thus preserve truth, uphold cleanliness, and defend the cause of God?



The time has come when we must take a far more firm and positive stand than ever before. We must identify illicit sex, pornography, filthy speech, and the use of liquor, tobacco, marijuana, and worse drugs as enemies of God and enemies to ourselves.

BoiseBYU wrote:
It is demoralizing to behold

snoscythe wrote:

It is demoralizing to behold

I see what you did there.

scott715 wrote:
http://patdollard.com/2013/07/it-begins-pedophiles-call-for-same-rights-as-homosexuals/



And so it begins.....