Taysom Hill PER - Biggest Irony

Bib, Did you eat too many paint chips as a child? Did other kids marginalize you and you didn't even know it was happening?

Hello. We already know where this is going to go by your hints. Just get it out already. Are you having an age-regressed Senior moment?

CrimsonCoug wrote:

I have included Taysom's rushing numbers in his PER (I gave him incompletions for his negative yard runs or runs for 0 yards)



This would be his PER:

75 of 162 for 964 yards 4 TDs 3 INTs PER of 100.73.



Still abysmal

Spiff, thanks for this. The formula adjustments seem similar to what we'd all discussed over the summer. I'd wondered how Hill would look with a total accounting for his productivity. Of course, these adjustments would also mean that for comparability the adjusted PER for all other BYU QBs would increase as well, and so the Mendoza line would also increase. Yet I'm confident the the jump in the Mendoza would likely not be nearly as high as the leap Hill's numbers saw by including his running ability into the equation. The irony (if it is that) that I see is that a dual threat QB who can both run and pass well makes both aspects of his game better than either would be alone. There's complementarity in being able to do both. (Think Young, Kaepernick, RG3). Hill's unideminsionality hurts what he's best at--the run. If he could pass better, he'd run better and his PER would increase by more than the improvement in passing.



Bib, I often agree with you, but the tone of this 'riddle' has been sanctimonious nigh unto insufferable. And I say that with love. The PER slide from WSU on down is an interesting factoid, but nothing to base any real conversation on.



More interesting, I think, is that Hill actually did far better against a better defense last year in Utah State than against any of the middling defenses he's faced this year (though UVA did have a solid secondary who knew just when to make a hit). Not sure what explains that. The Heaps curse of a sophomore slump? Coaching changes? Philosophy change? Don't know, but that USU game keep bugging me and keeps me wanting to give Hill more time (same with the Hawaii game, but that was against an awful D).

What's interesting is that against Hawaii, Hill failed to meet Hawaii's Defensiver PER. He was 2.6 points short.

The irony is that the majority of fans overreacted positively to his performance that day and probably are over reacting negatively to his being last this year.



He never has looked to me like a good passer. He does not look natural. I think he probably is capable of performing better than he is now.



Quite frankly, IDK what his USU PER was last year, but do recall the samw struggles to get into the endzone.



This thread was intended as a trivia question.



But it also points out how wildly fan enthusiasm swings and how quickly so.



Just look at Texas this year. One game and many fans were ready to expect 400 rushing yards per game out of the team.



I do not recall Hill looking like a good passer vs any strong defense this year or last.



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Cougs_Rule wrote:
Bib, Did you eat too many paint chips as a child? Did other kids marginalize you and you didn't even know it was happening?

Hello. We already know where this is going to go by your hints. Just get it out already. Are you having an age-regressed Senior moment?

Feeling bad that you could not remember that little bit of trivia? You know. And then jumping to the conclusion that if he had been given the start vs Utah and BSU that we would have won both games.



Let me guess - you forgot about that.



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Cougarbib wrote:
The irony is that the majority of fans overreacted positively to his performance that day and probably are over reacting negatively to his being last this year.



He never has looked to me like a good passer. He does not look natural. I think he probably is capable of performing better than he is now.



Quite frankly, IDK what his USU PER was last year, but do recall the samw struggles to get into the endzone.



This thread was intended as a trivia question.



But it also points out how wildly fan enthusiasm swings and how quickly so.



Just look at Texas this year. One game and many fans were ready to expect 400 rushing yards per game out of the team.



I do not recall Hill looking like a good passer vs any strong defense this year or last.



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The irony is you think people overreacted last year. Very few people were jumping out of their seats thinking THill could some how continue that kind of pace. I remember people sarcastically saying that THill should just throw it every time so that he could throw a TD every pass. No one seriously thought he could continue at even 1/3 the rate of his first pass throw (193.73 PER). I'd settle for 1/4 that rate (145.5).



Given the number of attempts we're now evaluating. It's highly more likely that the 114 attempts this year represent a much better representation of THill's passing ability than that one specific throw last year.



But that doesn't also take away from how great a play that was last year - which, yet again you are trying to do. Take the air out of a great BYU play or game or season (see your comments about the Texas game and how it really wasn't that special).

Cougarbib wrote:
This thread was intended as a trivia question.

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What was the trivia? It certainly wasn't that he once had the highest PER of a BYU player. There are 3 other players that finished their careers at BYU with higher PER ratings (all on one pass, but that's all we are evaluating for Hill in your "trivia"). He probably didn't even have the highest PER in the nation at any point because there were probably some teams out there that had a halfback pass go for a long score. I see no trivia here.

I just wasted ten minutes and lost two points of IQ.

Cougarbib wrote:

Bib, Did you eat too many paint chips as a child? Did other kids marginalize you and you didn't even know it was happening?

Hello. We already know where this is going to go by your hints. Just get it out already. Are you having an age-regressed Senior moment?

Feeling bad that you could not remember that little bit of trivia? You know. And then jumping to the conclusion that if he had been given the start vs Utah and BSU that we would have won both games.



Let me guess - you forgot about that.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Seriously you two, how long has it been since you two took a night off from the kids, did dinner and a movie, and just paid attention to each other?

Schmoe wrote:

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Bib, Did you eat too many paint chips as a child? Did other kids marginalize you and you didn't even know it was happening?

Hello. We already know where this is going to go by your hints. Just get it out already. Are you having an age-regressed Senior moment?

Feeling bad that you could not remember that little bit of trivia? You know. And then jumping to the conclusion that if he had been given the start vs Utah and BSU that we would have won both games.



Let me guess - you forgot about that.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

Seriously you two, how long has it been since you two took a night off from the kids, did dinner and a movie, and just paid attention to each other?

It was last night, in the tub with Jacksonman and his wife. But Bib kept insisting on silly trivia questions and getting the last word.

I wondered who those strange men were that joined us in our tub... I now know why they spend so much time in here away from their own wives and tubs...

jacksonman wrote:
I wondered who those strange men were that joined us in our tub... I now know why they spend so much time in here away from their own wives and tubs...

Was anyone baptized is what I want to know

SpiffCoug wrote:

The irony is that the majority of fans overreacted positively to his performance that day and probably are over reacting negatively to his being last this year.



He never has looked to me like a good passer. He does not look natural. I think he probably is capable of performing better than he is now.



Quite frankly, IDK what his USU PER was last year, but do recall the samw struggles to get into the endzone.



This thread was intended as a trivia question.



But it also points out how wildly fan enthusiasm swings and how quickly so.



Just look at Texas this year. One game and many fans were ready to expect 400 rushing yards per game out of the team.



I do not recall Hill looking like a good passer vs any strong defense this year or last.



[ Post made via Mobile Device ] http://cougarcorner.com/images/mobile.png" alt="" loading="lazy" style="max-width:100%">

The irony is you think people overreacted last year. Very few people were jumping out of their seats thinking THill could some how continue that kind of pace. I remember people sarcastically saying that THill should just throw it every time so that he could throw a TD every pass. No one seriously thought he could continue at even 1/3 the rate of his first pass throw (193.73 PER). I'd settle for 1/4 that rate (145.5).



Given the number of attempts we're now evaluating. It's highly more likely that the 114 attempts this year represent a much better representation of THill's passing ability than that one specific throw last year.



But that doesn't also take away from how great a play that was last year - which, yet again you are trying to do. Take the air out of a great BYU play or game or season (see your comments about the Texas game and how it really wasn't that special).

I have never denigrated the Texas win. Ranked it ahead of Oklahoma. Just did not expect to see the same result ongoing until TH improves his passing.



And, of course nobody expected the TH 500+ PER to continue. Nice try to avoid my point.



My point was that based on a tiny bit of data, the vocal fans on this site were all convinced that TH would have led us to wins over U and BSU even that early in his career. Well, he just got his shot at Utah. He will likely get a shot at BSU instead of the partial shot he got last year. And he may win with more experience now and BSU more vulnerable and with green grass.



But absolutely Spiff, fans over-reacted to Hill last year, again after UVA, again after Texas, and again after U. Sometimes positive. Sometimes negative. Same T Hill but the pendulum sure swings back and forth.



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Georgia Tech is playing Virginia Tech right now. Logan Thomas, QB for VT, is 9 for 9 passing through a quarter and a half. Will Hill ever go 9 for 9? even against MTSU? If he is 13 for 48 against MTSU, he should lose his scholarship and be subject to honor code violations (deceptive advertising himself as a QB).



I am not anti-Hill, but he better start completing passes, and the coaches better make a change if he doesn't or the fans will abandon this team--and the coaches in a hurry.

golong wrote:
Georgia Tech is playing Virginia Tech right now. Logan Thomas, QB for VT, is 9 for 9 passing through a quarter and a half. Will Hill ever go 9 for 9? even against MTSU? If he is 13 for 48 against MTSU, he should lose his scholarship and be subject to honor code violations (deceptive advertising himself as a QB).



I am not anti-Hill, but he better start completing passes, and the coaches better make a change if he doesn't or the fans will abandon this team--and the coaches in a hurry.

You're so funny....

Cougarbib wrote:
My point was that based on a tiny bit of data, the vocal fans on this site were all convinced that TH would have led us to wins over U and BSU even that early in his career. Well, he just got his shot at Utah. He will likely get a shot at BSU instead of the partial shot he got last year. And he may win with more experience now and BSU more vulnerable and with green grass.





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That's because ANY healthy QB would have played better against Boise and Utah than Riley did last year.



The worst decision BYU coaches made last year was to play an injured Riley Nelson. It's my opinion that a healthy Riley wins those games. A healthy Lark wins those games. Any QB but an injured Riley wins that game.

Me thinks the cupboard was bare.



But, after watching T Hill struggle to get 1 TD vs BSU and USU, and Lark vs SDSU, I think any of them could have if KVN scored a couple of defensive TDs.



But I do agree with you that I would like AO to get some significant snaps tomorrow so that we can see if the cupboard is still bsre and so that he is ready to go should he suddenly be needed.



Like Bronco, I do not tolerate USU losses well, and I hope we do not hand USU the 2nd place trophy for the state of Utah due to continued poor passing and being to stubborn to try someone else.



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SpiffCoug wrote:

SpiffCoug wrote:
I have included Taysom's rushing numbers in his PER (I gave him incompletions for his negative yard runs or runs for 0 yards)



This would be his PER:

75 of 162 for 964 yards 4 TDs 3 INTs PER of 100.73.



Still abysmal

Spiff, thanks for this. The formula adjustments seem similar to what we'd all discussed over the summer. I'd wondered how Hill would look with a total accounting for his productivity. Of course, these adjustments would also mean that for comparability the adjusted PER for all other BYU QBs would increase as well, and so the Mendoza line would also increase. Yet I'm confident the the jump in the Mendoza would likely not be nearly as high as the leap Hill's numbers saw by including his running ability into the equation. The irony (if it is that) that I see is that a dual threat QB who can both run and pass well makes both aspects of his game better than either would be alone. There's complementarity in being able to do both. (Think Young, Kaepernick, RG3). Hill's unideminsionality hurts what he's best at--the run. If he could pass better, he'd run better and his PER would increase by more than the improvement in passing.



Bib, I often agree with you, but the tone of this 'riddle' has been sanctimonious nigh unto insufferable. And I say that with love. The PER slide from WSU on down is an interesting factoid, but nothing to base any real conversation on.



More interesting, I think, is that Hill actually did far better against a better defense last year in Utah State than against any of the middling defenses he's faced this year (though UVA did have a solid secondary who knew just when to make a hit). Not sure what explains that. The Heaps curse of a sophomore slump? Coaching changes? Philosophy change? Don't know, but that USU game keep bugging me and keeps me wanting to give Hill more time (same with the Hawaii game, but that was against an awful D).

What's interesting is that against Hawaii, Hill failed to meet Hawaii's Defensiver PER. He was 2.6 points short.

Probably not a statistically significant difference, though.



Still, to not be better than the average passers HI played against is saying something. Like, we're still a solid MWC team.

SpiffCoug wrote:

My point was that based on a tiny bit of data, the vocal fans on this site were all convinced that TH would have led us to wins over U and BSU even that early in his career. Well, he just got his shot at Utah. He will likely get a shot at BSU instead of the partial shot he got last year. And he may win with more experience now and BSU more vulnerable and with green grass.





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That's because ANY healthy QB would have played better against Boise and Utah than Riley did last year.



The worst decision BYU coaches made last year was to play an injured Riley Nelson. It's my opinion that a healthy Riley wins those games. A healthy Lark wins those games. Any QB but an injured Riley wins that game.

Totally agree. All last year I kept thinking, "Man, I wonder if Kevin Feterik or Matt Berry have any eligibility left."



I actually posted here last year before the season began that I thought we'd most likely go 10-2 if Riley stayed healthy and 7-5 if he didn't. I had no inkling, though, that the staff would continue to play an injured QB. In that case, I undersold our defense. Any BYU-mediocre QB likely could have taken 2 more wins last year.

Cougarbib wrote:

Cougarbib wrote:
The irony is that the majority of fans overreacted positively to his performance that day and probably are over reacting negatively to his being last this year.



He never has looked to me like a good passer. He does not look natural. I think he probably is capable of performing better than he is now.



Quite frankly, IDK what his USU PER was last year, but do recall the samw struggles to get into the endzone.



This thread was intended as a trivia question.



But it also points out how wildly fan enthusiasm swings and how quickly so.



Just look at Texas this year. One game and many fans were ready to expect 400 rushing yards per game out of the team.



I do not recall Hill looking like a good passer vs any strong defense this year or last.



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The irony is you think people overreacted last year. Very few people were jumping out of their seats thinking THill could some how continue that kind of pace. I remember people sarcastically saying that THill should just throw it every time so that he could throw a TD every pass. No one seriously thought he could continue at even 1/3 the rate of his first pass throw (193.73 PER). I'd settle for 1/4 that rate (145.5).



Given the number of attempts we're now evaluating. It's highly more likely that the 114 attempts this year represent a much better representation of THill's passing ability than that one specific throw last year.



But that doesn't also take away from how great a play that was last year - which, yet again you are trying to do. Take the air out of a great BYU play or game or season (see your comments about the Texas game and how it really wasn't that special).

I have never denigrated the Texas win. Ranked it ahead of Oklahoma. Just did not expect to see the same result ongoing until TH improves his passing.



And, of course nobody expected the TH 500+ PER to continue. Nice try to avoid my point.



My point was that based on a tiny bit of data, the vocal fans on this site were all convinced that TH would have led us to wins over U and BSU even that early in his career. Well, he just got his shot at Utah. He will likely get a shot at BSU instead of the partial shot he got last year. And he may win with more experience now and BSU more vulnerable and with green grass.



But absolutely Spiff, fans over-reacted to Hill last year, again after UVA, again after Texas, and again after U. Sometimes positive. Sometimes negative. Same T Hill but the pendulum sure swings back and forth.



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Kaneshiro DOINK! Who cares Bib. Why dont you try to pull a rabbit out of your hat--it would have more credibility than your little trivial, oops excuse me, trivia game.

And next time you want to troll by omitting a reference or quote of when I said what I said, try at least acknowledging an iirc or actually look for a quote. A 65% Riley, on heavy drugs no less, was not a better choice than an un-schemed for freak fast athlete.

Getting to this thread late..... My 0.2

I agree 100% that the fan support swings back and forth way too much. At least here on CC. Taysom Hill was a world beater after beating UH last year. We win vs USU and we all think he is future at the QB position. UVA comes and goes and were pissed but making excuses, Texas comes and were back on the Taysom train holding on to the same excuses of why he can't pass. Utah comes and it's an all out fire sale on TH.

Coach Anae has it worse than TH right now. Feast or famine in cougar fandom.