Player Performances So Far

Actually it was me that said he had a decent game against Stanford. My opening post has a graphic where I color coded each performance as decent, good, or awesome. Statistically, Carlino had a decent game against Stanford. You can argue that he provides more than the stats show such as pace, aggressiveness and that's fine. I have no problem with that. But, it was me that said he had a decent game against Stanford and I stand by that statistically speaking.

On Carlino...

I guess we could trade him for Craig Cusick, Brock Zylstra, Nick Martineau, even Lamont Morgan...



Seriously, he's the best PG we've had since and before Jimmer for quite some time. He can score; He can defend, He knows how to anticipate a steal and a fast break. Yes he can be out of control, but when he's on his game, he's very very good.

craigoscarson wrote:
On Carlino...

I guess we could trade him for Craig Cusick, Brock Zylstra, Nick Martineau, even Lamont Morgan...



Seriously, he's the best PG we've had since and before Jimmer for quite some time. He can score; He can defend, He knows how to anticipate a steal and a fast break. Yes he can be out of control, but when he's on his game, he's very very good.

And the saddest part of this saga is that what you have stated is true. As I said before, BYU has only rarely had anything resembling a great point guard.



List all of the starting NBA Point Guards that ever played at BYU right here.



Ok. Never mind.



Just list all of the All Amercans. OK. Never mind.



Just list all of the 1st Team WAC or 1st Team MWC point guards.



Carlino is the best we have had in a while and the best we have right now. I still hope Coach Rose benches him for a few minutes every time he launches and out of control 3 early in the shot clock.



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hawkwing wrote:
I like Carlino's aggressiveness also, I think he does get some unfair criticism but I also think he gets unfairly defended against legitimate criticism sometimes.



I can't think of any other PG from the past 15 years that I'd trade him for, except obviously Jimmer. But I still think that Jimmer had a way of making his teammates better that Carlino has yet to truly develop.

Have to disagree on Jimmer making his teammates better. If by better you mean winning games, then yes he made his teammates better. If by better you mean distributing the ball, help defense, and setting picks, then now way. Can't recall seeing Jimmer ever set a pick. Jackson had to cover for him on defense. Noah would pick up the defender after they dribbled past Jimmer. In reality Jimmer's team made him better. He doesn't have a cast clearing the way for him in the NBA.



Carlino isn't putting on a clinic every night so doesn't have that "wow" factor. That is what is "missing."



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Gunk wrote:

I like Carlino's aggressiveness also, I think he does get some unfair criticism but I also think he gets unfairly defended against legitimate criticism sometimes.



I can't think of any other PG from the past 15 years that I'd trade him for, except obviously Jimmer. But I still think that Jimmer had a way of making his teammates better that Carlino has yet to truly develop.

Have to disagree on Jimmer making his teammates better. If by better you mean winning games, then yes he made his teammates better. If by better you mean distributing the ball, help defense, and setting picks, then now way. Can't recall seeing Jimmer ever set a pick. Jackson had to cover for him on defense. Noah would pick up the defender after they dribbled past Jimmer. In reality Jimmer's team made him better. He doesn't have a cast clearing the way for him in the NBA.



Carlino isn't putting on a clinic every night so doesn't have that "wow" factor. That is what is "missing."



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I hate to agree with anyone as disagreeable as Hawkwing, but here is how Jimmer made his teammates better: He drew double and triple team coverage often leaving one or two guys wide open. Unfortunately, he had a limited supporting cast that did not consistently capitalize on that, but Jackson Emery, Brandon Davies, and Noah Hartsock usually did.



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Greg Wrubell made a good point in his recent tweet re: Carlino.



"Just speculating, but Matty may have felt additional pressure to compensate for Haws' scoring over the last two games. He'll be just fine."



I agree. I thought he outshone every other player on the floor during the first half of the Stanford game (until he had some phantom fouls called on him). He has tremendous ability, and it really shows when he is feeling free and well supported with extremely talented teammates.



The turnovers will improve. Some of his turnovers have been the result of others fumbling his passes in the lane. That will improve as well.

The term hucking that some of you use comes to mind. I'm not saying he's the worst pg we've had, I am saying if he cut back on some of the things he does he could be better, maybe much better. Just because he's better than a lot of mediocre pgs doesn't mean he couldn't be better.

The question that comes to my mind is if he'll ever play on an NBA team? I don't think so. I don't think he'll ever even make a roster.



That doesn't mean he can't be a very good college PG though.

Cougarbib wrote:

hawkwing wrote:
I like Carlino's aggressiveness also, I think he does get some unfair criticism but I also think he gets unfairly defended against legitimate criticism sometimes.



I can't think of any other PG from the past 15 years that I'd trade him for, except obviously Jimmer. But I still think that Jimmer had a way of making his teammates better that Carlino has yet to truly develop.

Have to disagree on Jimmer making his teammates better. If by better you mean winning games, then yes he made his teammates better. If by better you mean distributing the ball, help defense, and setting picks, then now way. Can't recall seeing Jimmer ever set a pick. Jackson had to cover for him on defense. Noah would pick up the defender after they dribbled past Jimmer. In reality Jimmer's team made him better. He doesn't have a cast clearing the way for him in the NBA.



Carlino isn't putting on a clinic every night so doesn't have that "wow" factor. That is what is "missing."



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He drew double and triple team coverage often leaving one or two guys wide open. Unfortunately, he had a limited supporting cast that did not consistently capitalize on that, but Jackson Emery, Brandon Davies, and Noah Hartsock usually did.



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And Jimmer would still force the shot rather than pass to a wide open Noah underneath or wide open Emery in the corner. We didn't care, though, because Jimmer made those forced shots half the time or got to the line. Jimmer was a ball hog, albeit a very good one.



Bet if you asked Noah, he'd say the same thing. You could often see the frustration on Noah's face. Even remember hearing him yell, "Pass the ball!" at Jimmer after Jimmer attempted to beat a triple team and get picked. But they couldn't really complain, BYU was winning games.



Jimmer took 765 shots his senior season. That's just 55 less than Hartsock, Davies and Emery combined. 765 shots!



Carlino, for all his "chucking" and recklessness took 377 last season, less than half as many Jimmer took.



Jimmer also averaged just 4.3 assists per game while Carlino average 4.8 last season and is currently above 5 this season.



So, Jimmer took almost as many shots as three starters combined, averaged fewer assists than recent PGs but is somehow lauded as making his teammates "better?" :skeptic: Let's not forget how many times we complained about the team standing around watching Jimmer...



BTW, Emery only shot 36% from 3 point land. Noah average under 10 pts a game and Davies was barely above 10. Jimmer wasn't working with an all star cast, which Rose likely realized so had no issue with Jimmer hogging the ball.

I don't think it's fair to call Jimmer a ballhog. With the percentage he shot and at 5 assists per game, he was just a good player.

Schmoe wrote:
I don't think it's fair to call Jimmer a ballhog. With the percentage he shot and at 5 assists per game, he was just a good player.

Accept he was at 4.3 assists per game. Combine that with 3.5 turnovers a game and Jimmer really wasn't that good at distributing or taking care of the ball. Part of the reason he's struggling to get minutes in the NBA.



I'm a big Jimmer fan, but he had holes in his game (ball distribution and defense) that get completely glossed over. Jimmer is a great scorer, one of the best in college. But, outside of shooting/scoring (biggest part of the game), Jimmer was average at best.

EXCEPT if you look at the three years he played significant minutes, instead of just his senior year, he was actually under 3 turnovers per, while his assists were still at 4.4 and shooting 46% from the floor, then maybe you don't call him a 'ballhog' as it has such a negative connotation. I also don't buy that his defense is as big a liability as people want to claim, dude was top-ten in the nation his junior and senior years in the +/-. Is he the most complete player? Not close, but to try to rag on him as a ballhog is nonsense.

Nearly 5 assists in the college game is good. Most of the top players in the NCAA are only in the high 8's or low 7's per game. Jimmer is a good passer, he just didn't have anyone outside of Noah that could put the ball in the bucket regularly.



He doesn't get PT in the Kings organization because Smart was a racist, terrible coach, and was pandering to IT (the dad). Jimmer was better than Thomas in every way when you extrapolate the averages over equal minutes.

Updated through the first 8 games:


BYU PER 2013-12-03.PNG

Collinsworth is really filling up the statsheet. While not a scorer he's a great teammate to have. Carlino needs to keep pushing the pace and passing the ball. Haws needs to find his shot and toughness. Mika needs to keep dunking. Austin has really trailed off. Bartley is a great sub and I think should use his quickness and hops to drive to the hoop more and shoot less jumpers.

Lookslike Carlino and Mika are the two most consistent players. They're the only ones with just one poor game. But Collinsworth has the most good games.

Solid game last night. Too many TOs, but otherwise really good. Austin was back.

Maybe MC is starting to realize he's not Jimmer but can really be game changer. I was bummed for him tat he can't find his stroke--he was so close to tat triple double. Of curse, the potential quad double tat included almost 10 TOs does not look good at all.

Some of you KC doubters/haters have yet to come out and fess up.

And Mika is not fading under tough circumstances. Some coaches saying he is better than even they thought.

Love Halfords game. And love Bartley-- but he has to be a little more selective. He came in and forced two shots in two possessions. His leftie dunk with harm was sick. Horrible no call.

FREETHROWS!!!!!!!

Carlino is a mixed blessing. Last night he almost had a triple double with assists, rebounds and turnovers. His aggressiveness fuels the team but untimely poor percentage shots, forced high risk passes and tendency to go me against the world can really change the momentum of the game and derail a scoring run. The top WCC teams, will make BYU pay because they play a deliberate, high percentage shot selection game with good shooters and defense that forces teams to have outside shot weapons. Carlino needs to improve on his decision making and BYU will go far. Good news is that the team is deep and FBIV, Halford, Winder, etc. Can provide some additional support for O, D and pace.



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BlueIsBetter wrote:
Nearly 5 assists in the college game is good. Most of the top players in the NCAA are only in the high 8's or low 7's per game. Jimmer is a good passer, he just didn't have anyone outside of Noah that could put the ball in the bucket regularly.



He doesn't get PT in the Kings organization because Smart was a racist, terrible coach, and was pandering to IT (the dad). Jimmer was better than Thomas in every way when you extrapolate the averages over equal minutes.

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Looks at the advanced stats-



Thomas is a superior offensive player. Both of them are bad defensive players.





Smart is gone what is your excuse for Jimmer now?



Don't get me wrong. I like Jimmer and I think he can find a spot off the bench for someone in the league. But Thomas is a better NBA player.

Qman wrote:





Smart is gone what is your excuse for Jimmer now?

They don't play him. And it isn't an excuse, it's a reason.



Look at the box scores. Any time that Jimmer has gotten 25 minutes or more his stats have DWARFED Thomas (pun intended).

Guys. Take the Jimmer stuff to a different place--especially the anti-Jimmer-NBApandering crap.