KC! And some of you scoffed....

Mars wrote:


Just like even the best players on this team right now, KC is really good at some things and really bad at other things. BYU has no all-around fundamentally-solid player on the roster at the moment. A bunch of highly talented guys though, yes.

Was thinking this the other day.



Talent and athleticism wise, I can't remember a better team. Discipline and fundamentals/ability wise we struggle.

Gunk wrote:

KC is doing better at pulling up in the lane and shooting 10 foot jumpers. Even someone who shoots like a girl should be able to nail that shot consistently even if it has to hit rim 3x. That kind of mid range shot is what gets him to the next level if he keeps it up. Next it will need to be 3's and FT's. Because right now all he makes are layups and dunks and nobody who isn't 7'0" can rely on that forever.

He doesn't really extend his arms when shooting, does he. With his height and vertical he should be able shoot over defenders all day.



Regarding Travis Hansen, I'd take Hansen over KC any day of the week. Better shooting, better hops, better post up moves and certainly better defense. No comparison in my mind.



KC needs an outside shot and a couple of back to the basket moves and he'd be nearly unstoppable.



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I think KC is a pretty darn good defender. He has tipped away or outright stolen quite a few balls. He also has great timing to get blocks and gets a lot of rebounds. He is a baller thorugh and through.

imuakahuku wrote:

mizzoucoug wrote:
KC is doing better at pulling up in the lane and shooting 10 foot jumpers. Even someone who shoots like a girl should be able to nail that shot consistently even if it has to hit rim 3x. That kind of mid range shot is what gets him to the next level if he keeps it up. Next it will need to be 3's and FT's. Because right now all he makes are layups and dunks and nobody who isn't 7'0" can rely on that forever.

He doesn't really extend his arms when shooting, does he. With his height and vertical he should be able shoot over defenders all day.



Regarding Travis Hansen, I'd take Hansen over KC any day of the week. Better shooting, better hops, better post up moves and certainly better defense. No comparison in my mind.



KC needs an outside shot and a couple of back to the basket moves and he'd be nearly unstoppable.



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I think KC is a pretty darn good defender. He has tipped away or outright stolen quite a few balls. He also has great timing to get blocks and gets a lot of rebounds. He is a baller thorugh and through.

No question. I just think Hansen was a better baller.



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Hansen was and will be unless KC can at least sink his FTs.

He doesn't have to have a great outside shot.

Then again, neither Magic in his early years.

Thunder Dan had a great outside shot. Not a great comparison. But neither is Magic, but at a slow white D1 school KC has that talent binding effect.

He still is the MVP for the season, IMO. I know there is TH, but maybe co-MVP. Again, is he could hit FTs, this team would be 2-3 wins better and not fighting to get on the bubble.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
He still is the MVP for the season, IMO. I know there is TH, but maybe co-MVP. Again, is he could hit FTs, this team would be 2-3 wins better and not fighting to get on the bubble.

I think his outside shooting in general is pretty weak. I am so relieved when he takes it to the hole instead of pulling up and shooting. If he ever gets that shot down he will become one of the best all time BYU players. And FT's are just perplexing. I think he needs to get at FT routine that will work for him.



The thing I think that is most astounding about him is that he appears to play at such a slow pace but makes play after play. It's like he is toying with the other players. Kind of like the "really" good players that show up for pickup games at church and take it easy on us not so good players but score and defend at will.

Cougs_Rule wrote:
Hansen was and will be unless KC can at least sink his FTs.

He doesn't have to have a great outside shot.

Then again, neither Magic in his early years.

Thunder Dan had a great outside shot. Not a great comparison. But neither is Magic, but at a slow white D1 school KC has that talent binding effect.

Some of you scoffed KC after his fresh year and when he came back; some of scoffed when I suggested he was BYU's version of Magic Johnson.

Well, 3rd triple double in a season? That puts him in special company. If he gets two more he will break the record for NCAA. That's a lot to ask, but it's possible. And while he may not be as effective as Magic as a PG, he definitely changes the game.

His FTs have improved. If his shot can keep improving, and his knee holds out, he will make the NBA.

Great job Kyle.keep kickin it. Fun game to watch, except when the scrubs choked and bricked away the 100 point barrier.

Against some of the teams we'll be seeing, I'll be pretty disappointed if he doesn't get a few more triple-doubles.

Cougs_Rule wrote:

Hansen was and will be unless KC can at least sink his FTs.

He doesn't have to have a great outside shot.

Then again, neither Magic in his early years.

Thunder Dan had a great outside shot. Not a great comparison. But neither is Magic, but at a slow white D1 school KC has that talent binding effect.

Some of you scoffed KC after his fresh year and when he came back; some of scoffed when I suggested he was BYU's version of Magic Johnson.

Well, 3rd triple double in a season? That puts him in special company. If he gets two more he will break the record for NCAA. That's a lot to ask, but it's possible. And while he may not be as effective as Magic as a PG, he definitely changes the game.

His FTs have improved. If his shot can keep improving, and his knee holds out, he will make the NBA.

Great job Kyle.keep kickin it. Fun game to watch, except when the scrubs choked and bricked away the 100 point barrier.

The NBA is a long way away. NBA guards have to be able to hit a NBA 3 about about 33% per game unless they are a special talent. KC isn't going to be a PG in the NBA and I wonder how is game will work against players as big, strong and fast. That said I am really glad he is at BYU and I am hoping another offseason of great skills work will make him a very good college 3 point shooter.

Forget the 3, KC needs a 15-18 foot jumper and he would be nearly unstoppable. Teams know that KC needs to get close to the rim to be effective. Fortunately for BYU and for KC, he is VERY good at getting to the rim and dishing. His vision has improved by leaps and bounds. His FT has improved as well which makes me think he still has time to get a jump shot. If that develops, I expect a log of scouts to be looking his way next year.

Consider Kawai Leonard. He did not have much of a shot but had a lot of game when drafted and has developed his shot. There totally is room for guys who can get to the rim and fill a stat sheet. I'm not saying he is 1st rounder, but trust me, his stock is rising.

KC is a better pro prospect than Travis Hansen believe it or not. He's stronger, he's a much much better passer and ball handler, he's taller, and a better rebounder. And he's only a junior.... if he makes the same amount of improvement from last year to this year in the next year... come on...



I get that 2 guards in the NBA have to shoot the ball to be successful, but on a team where they don't need another shooter, but a smart player than can distribute, rebound and play defense, I think he's going to be solid. I think Ginobili when I think of Kyle. (I said this well over a year ago)



How many triple doubles (or for that matter assists and rebounds) did Travis have during his BYU career? Travis had some help too (he played with Wesley, Lemes, Araujo, etc. etc.) This team is broken.. we don't have a single solid big man and we're winning... that's in great part to the flexibility and overall game of KC.



Travis averaged 1.8 assists per game at BYU, 13.3 ppg (16.8 as a senior) had 62 steals in his entire career, 37 blocks, and averaged 4.8 rebounds a game (405 in 85 games played)



Kyle has played almost the exact amount of games (since Travis was an xfer)

averages 3.8 assists per game (almost 6 a game this year) 10.4 ppg (13.2 this year with 200+ less attempts in the same amount of games), 131 steals (DOUBLE), 38 blocks, has averaged 6.9 rebounds a game (8.5 a game this year)



Travis also had 241 personal fouls in 85 games

Kyle has 191 in 86 games played



And we still have Kyle for another year and a half....

If KC could just pull up and take a 12 footer or had a fade-away, I think he'd be golden. While, I agree his stats are impressive, Travis was a 2/3 in college. It's a bit unfair to Travis. If KC was playing the 2 or 3 spot he wouldn't have nearly as many assists. Plus, Cleveland's offense just didn't score as much as Rose's offense. Cleveland ran a half-court set. Fast breaks were a rarity whereas with Rose they are the norm. Imagine what an athlete like Travis would have accomplished in Rose's run 'n gun style. It was rare for Cleveland 's teams to score above 70. Meanwhile, Rose's teams are routinely among the top scoring teams in the nation. Travis, also scored in multiple ways - off the dribble, mid-range and from the arc.



Not trying to take anything away from KC, but I think the comparison to Travis isn't completely 1 to 1. Lots of variables.



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craigoscarson wrote:
KC is a better pro prospect than Travis Hansen believe it or not. He's stronger, he's a much much better passer and ball handler, he's taller, and a better rebounder. And he's only a junior.... if he makes the same amount of improvement from last year to this year in the next year... come on...



I get that 2 guards in the NBA have to shoot the ball to be successful, but on a team where they don't need another shooter, but a smart player than can distribute, rebound and play defense, I think he's going to be solid. I think Ginobili when I think of Kyle. (I said this well over a year ago)



How many triple doubles (or for that matter assists and rebounds) did Travis have during his BYU career? Travis had some help too (he played with Wesley, Lemes, Araujo, etc. etc.) This team is broken.. we don't have a single solid big man and we're winning... that's in great part to the flexibility and overall game of KC.



Travis averaged 1.8 assists per game at BYU, 13.3 ppg (16.8 as a senior) had 62 steals in his entire career, 37 blocks, and averaged 4.8 rebounds a game (405 in 85 games played)



Kyle has played almost the exact amount of games (since Travis was an xfer)

averages 3.8 assists per game (almost 6 a game this year) 10.4 ppg (13.2 this year with 200+ less attempts in the same amount of games), 131 steals (DOUBLE), 38 blocks, has averaged 6.9 rebounds a game (8.5 a game this year)



Travis also had 241 personal fouls in 85 games

Kyle has 191 in 86 games played



And we still have Kyle for another year and a half....

So we are assuming that KC's slashing game around the hoop is going to work against NBA athletes? That would be my biggest concern. Though his rebounding and overall game is attractive, I am not seeing sure-fire first round talent yet.

craigoscarson wrote:
KC is a better pro prospect than Travis Hansen believe it or not. He's stronger, he's a much much better passer and ball handler, he's taller, and a better rebounder. And he's only a junior.... if he makes the same amount of improvement from last year to this year in the next year... come on...



I get that 2 guards in the NBA have to shoot the ball to be successful, but on a team where they don't need another shooter, but a smart player than can distribute, rebound and play defense, I think he's going to be solid. I think Ginobili when I think of Kyle. (I said this well over a year ago)



How many triple doubles (or for that matter assists and rebounds) did Travis have during his BYU career? Travis had some help too (he played with Wesley, Lemes, Araujo, etc. etc.) This team is broken.. we don't have a single solid big man and we're winning... that's in great part to the flexibility and overall game of KC.



Travis averaged 1.8 assists per game at BYU, 13.3 ppg (16.8 as a senior) had 62 steals in his entire career, 37 blocks, and averaged 4.8 rebounds a game (405 in 85 games played)



Kyle has played almost the exact amount of games (since Travis was an xfer)

averages 3.8 assists per game (almost 6 a game this year) 10.4 ppg (13.2 this year with 200+ less attempts in the same amount of games), 131 steals (DOUBLE), 38 blocks, has averaged 6.9 rebounds a game (8.5 a game this year)



Travis also had 241 personal fouls in 85 games

Kyle has 191 in 86 games played



And we still have Kyle for another year and a half....

So we are assuming that KC's slashing game around the hoop is going to work against NBA athletes? That would be my biggest concern. Though his rebounding and overall game is attractive, I am not seeing sure-fire first round talent yet.

I dont think anyone is claiming first round talent and stock. But basically, if KC were a Sr and in the draft consideration, he would be going from off of the "experts" radar to on the radar. If he happens to get his fourth triple-double and tie, or even better, breaks the record (held by four guys) with a fifth he would easily get onto experts radars. But that's just it, that's kind of big news for any BYU player to get that kind of attention.

But, as has been mentioned, that's a long ways away. And he does need to show better with at least a mid-range shot.

Qman wrote:

KC is a better pro prospect than Travis Hansen believe it or not. He's stronger, he's a much much better passer and ball handler, he's taller, and a better rebounder. And he's only a junior.... if he makes the same amount of improvement from last year to this year in the next year... come on...



I get that 2 guards in the NBA have to shoot the ball to be successful, but on a team where they don't need another shooter, but a smart player than can distribute, rebound and play defense, I think he's going to be solid. I think Ginobili when I think of Kyle. (I said this well over a year ago)



How many triple doubles (or for that matter assists and rebounds) did Travis have during his BYU career? Travis had some help too (he played with Wesley, Lemes, Araujo, etc. etc.) This team is broken.. we don't have a single solid big man and we're winning... that's in great part to the flexibility and overall game of KC.



Travis averaged 1.8 assists per game at BYU, 13.3 ppg (16.8 as a senior) had 62 steals in his entire career, 37 blocks, and averaged 4.8 rebounds a game (405 in 85 games played)



Kyle has played almost the exact amount of games (since Travis was an xfer)

averages 3.8 assists per game (almost 6 a game this year) 10.4 ppg (13.2 this year with 200+ less attempts in the same amount of games), 131 steals (DOUBLE), 38 blocks, has averaged 6.9 rebounds a game (8.5 a game this year)



Travis also had 241 personal fouls in 85 games

Kyle has 191 in 86 games played



And we still have Kyle for another year and a half....

So we are assuming that KC's slashing game around the hoop is going to work against NBA athletes? That would be my biggest concern. Though his rebounding and overall game is attractive, I am not seeing sure-fire first round talent yet.

Not every player has to score in bunches anyhow. Jason Kidd, Ricky Rubio= great passers that not only were terrible shooters (or still are) and to be honest average defenders, but they both rebound very well for their size, get steals (in spite of not being stellar athletes) but are world class passers. KC is getting there and he has more size. I realize he's not realy a point guard, which is why I think he compares favorably to Ginobili.



I don't think KC will be a world beater and he has flaws in his game, but he also has size for his position 2-3, strength for his size, a very high basketball IQ, rebounds incredibly well (due to his strength and hoops IQ) and is becoming a world class passer of the ball. Give him another year and a summer with a shooting coach and I do think there's a chance he'll be a 1st rounder and if he develops as a shooter, he'll log a lot of minutes in the NBA. If he doesn't he'll still be an NBA player, just not for very long.



He's flawed. Just like this entire team... Tyler can't handle the ball very well and doesn't have elite size or passing ability, but is a world class shooter.



Our top 5 bigs wouldn't play for Gonzaga... but this collection of talent is still winning. A tribute to the coaching and also emphasizing what they're good at.

But Craig, you haven't addressed the real issue that BYU doesn't have a "true" PG and KC sucks at it. :roll:

Oh and haven't you heard, Rose compliments aren't currently allowed on CC. In fact, Roses accumulations need to be "redistributed" to Bronco right now, bc Bronco isn't getting enough credit. ;-)