Teo Not Serving Mission

Schmoe wrote:
I don't think that I've said anything to judge Manti, but I'd say that what the Lord commands us to do is best for everyone, the Lord is not a respecter of persons.

I think we have agency for a reason. Is blind obedience what you believe in? Or should we have the ability to take the council that is given and apply it in our own lives and to our own situations? And for you to say you aren't judging him and then say a mission is what he should be doing is contradictory, you are judging him. And others are judging his family because his dad didn't serve a mission.

I never said he was a bad person for not going, I'm judging his decision as a poor decision, not him as a person. And yes, we have agency to choose between what's right and what's wrong. If we choose to follow the Lord and what he has COMMANDED (not recommended, not suggested, but commanded), then we are choosing the right. If not, then we are choosing the wrong. To make yourself an exception to the rules is to say that you know more than God, which is obviously false.

Schmoe wrote:
I never said he was a bad person for not going, I'm judging his decision as a poor decision, not him as a person. And yes, we have agency to choose between what's right and what's wrong. If we choose to follow the Lord and what he has COMMANDED (not recommended, not suggested, but commanded), then we are choosing the right. If not, then we are choosing the wrong. To make yourself an exception to the rules is to say that you know more than God, which is obviously false.

I shouldn't have got myself into a religious discussion, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I really have no interest in getting into an argument over it. To me it is obvious that this man is being judged very harshly by BYU fans who are still bitter about him not choosing BYU, the reason I say this is none of you are as harsh about any other LDS players who don't go, some at BYU at some at other schools.

I agree that some are making judgments about him and his character based on his decisions not to go to BYU and not to serve a mission. I disagree, however, with the assertion that we cannot judge a decision as bad or good (ie-you shouldn't have eaten that week-old pizza) without judging the person themselves. I also disagree with the assertion that the Lord gave us agency as a justification for disobeying Him.

tripwire wrote:

I never said he was a bad person for not going, I'm judging his decision as a poor decision, not him as a person. And yes, we have agency to choose between what's right and what's wrong. If we choose to follow the Lord and what he has COMMANDED (not recommended, not suggested, but commanded), then we are choosing the right. If not, then we are choosing the wrong. To make yourself an exception to the rules is to say that you know more than God, which is obviously false.

I shouldn't have got myself into a religious discussion, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I really have no interest in getting into an argument over it. To me it is obvious that this man is being judged very harshly by BYU fans who are still bitter about him not choosing BYU, the reason I say this is none of you are as harsh about any other LDS players who don't go, some at BYU at some at other schools.

You have a very short memory if you think that Stanley Havili didn't get this same treatment or Haloti Ngata etc. etc. etc.



(keep in mind that Steve Young, Danny Ainge, even Donny Osmond did not serve missions... we're basically talking about the highest profile LDS BYU graduates in their particular fields...)



I personally don't have a problem with someone choosing not to go (all 4 boys in my family chose to go, but I dont' think any of us would have been treated differently if we hadn't). It's still a choice; and just because a kid is brought up LDS and attends BYU or any other institution doesn't even neccessarily mean that he has a strong belief in the church, or any. Who am I to judge someone elses faith or tell them what to believe?



If you believe that BYU is a great school but don't have a strong conviction that when the prophets say something that it's a commandment, then a mission seems like a real stretch. BYU doesn't rank a students faith when they accept them...



(recently, there are also some things that you can do in your youth that now can preclude mission acceptance, such as premarital sex. Do that, and there's a chance that you might not allowed to go, even if you decide you want to later)



There are many other reasons to choose BYU as a school and sports program; it's safe, it's a great education, a perrenial top 20 football and hoops program, the women are beautiful, there are fewer distractions, if you grew up LDS there's a comfort level that you might not find elsehwere, and even a kid that doesn't have a strong testimony of the church at will have the ability to figure out if this is something he wants in life, or not. Again, that's a personal decision.



Not all LDS kids that leave BYU stay active or in the church; doesn't make it right in the minds of the devout LDS members, but it's just a matter of faith. Not all of us have it and not all will or want it. That doesn't make BYU a bad place to go to school.



Here's where my problem lies with some of the kids that have attended school outside of BYU. They say one thing and do another. Stanley Havili pretty much guaranteed that he intended on serving a mission; outside of yesterdays great ball game, he's been a virtual no show the last 2 years on the field, and we all know he didnt' serve.

Kaveinga said he intended to serve and it seems he had to leave USC just to serve a mission (this starts to make you wonder how much of it is the players choice vs the other institutions pressure)

Manti Teo left the door open and suggested that he would serve; yet he's made comments like "paddle my own boat" that certainly rub us the wrong way. Those of us that have spoken to players that were there last January for his official recruiting weekend, see his drinking as the ultimate disrespect to an institution that he knew what BYU stood for; a complete slap in the face. (it's one thing to do it, it's another to do it on our dime, when we're trying to recruit you - you dont' drink during a job interview if you're serious about that job)

It's one thing to question your faith or desire to serve a mission, it's another to openly state you have strong faith, yet do and say things that indicate that it's the "Manti show" and that faith has very little to do with it. He's opened a big fat door to criticism.



If your faith is as strong as Manti suggests, then you don't "paddle your own boat". you do what schmoe said and obey what's been commanded.



Is this all painted by the fact that he didnt' chose BYU? Yes, let's not be naive. (in my case, I'm more put off by his actions last January which show a complete and utter disrespect for BYU)

But personally too many of his actions suggest to me that he wasnt' a good fit here anyhow, the mission thing being just one of many. Nothing could suprise me less that he chose not to.



As far as the mission issue; this goes to show more and more that you have an exponentially better chance of serving a mission if you do attend BYU. Teo's lack of a mission helps confirm that... at BYU there's no question that the option is not only there, but that it's embraced. The articles out of south bend suggest that Notre Dame sees the lack of a mission by Teo as football life support...



This can only help BYU recruiting when it comes to talking to mom and dad... and recruit.



This week has been a revelation for the future of BYU sports.

We spank a very good Oregon State team and keep our coaching staff intact thus far.

Our conferences opponents have held their own and won their bowl games.

Kaveinga decides to serve a mission and by doing so it looks like he had to leave USC and join BYU.

Teo decides to stay in South Bound and flounder with that program.



Nothing on that list does anything but help BYUs cause as far as recruiting and the future. If Manti was going to chose not to serve a mission, he did it in a way that helps our football program the most. Chose a high profile team that loses the coach that recruited him, make comments to the media about church service and "paddling your own boat at ND", chose not to serve a mission, flounder next year (there's no reason to believe that Notre Dame can overcome their schedule and loss of Clausen, Floyd, Tate, Young) and then bolt for the NFL (which is what many of us expect)



It's a win in my book. Future recruits and their families will see it...

Any chance that overwhelming social pressure is what caused him to initially say he was going to go? Think about it from his perspective for a second, a Mormon kid who chose to go to a Catholic school, while BYU fans all over tried to make him feel like he was letting down his whole church by not choosing BYU. While at the same time insinuating that he was a bad kid who couldn't handle the honor code. Maybe, just maybe, he had a huge incentive to say he was still planning on a mission just to get people off his back. Or, maybe he did plan on going but changed his mind, people have been known to do that know and again.

tripwire wrote:
Any chance that overwhelming social pressure is what caused him to initially say he was going to go? Think about it from his perspective for a second, a Mormon kid who chose to go to a Catholic school, while BYU fans all over tried to make him feel like he was letting down his whole church by not choosing BYU. While at the same time insinuating that he was a bad kid who couldn't handle the honor code. Maybe, just maybe, he had a huge incentive to say he was still planning on a mission just to get people off his back. Or, maybe he did plan on going but changed his mind, people have been known to do that know and again.

You could be right. However his comments suggest differently. (kids make stupid comments too, so who knows)



Again the message really sent this week is that if you do or don't intend to serve a mission, that BYU is still the best place to go if you'd like to keep that option. You have an exponentially better chance of serving if you attend BYU... that might just be a message for the recruits parents and not for the recruit... but ultimately it helps BYU sports that we embrace that option.



Go or don't go, if you attend BYU you will have a choice and the institution will leave that choice up to you, and even embrace it.

Nothing at USC or Notre Dame would indicate that they embrace a mission decision, in fact just the opposite.

Remember when Bronco ruffled some feathers when he made the statement that LDS kids who choose to play somewhere other than BYU, don't go on missions. That he only knew of one player who took that route and actually served a mission? Well, so far, he is dead on. So here is Teo not going, Havili didn't go, and the list goes on. Bronco knows what he's talking about.

Don't kid yourself, no other school (outside of Utah schools) have any tolerance for players leaving after their freshman year to go on a mission. They may not be able to stop it, but they will definitely try--there is no support for this practice outside the state of Utah. I don't think most people have any idea what a deeply worldly culture sports is at most universities. BYU is light years apart from those schools.

I find it interesting that a generic statement like "I find it interesting when I hear kids in the media say they are inspired to not go on a mission when it is a commandment by the church leaders to go" makes people come on this board and call me a sinner for being judgmental. I don't know manti Teo, I don't pretend to know why he made the decision that he made. All I know is that if it is a commandment, then why would the Lord tell this young man not to go? I think that is a legit question since it would go against the nature of the Lord to command all worthy young men to go on missions, unless you are a talented athlete and can make millions in the NFL. That kind of thing just doesn't make sense to me since it would make the Lord a liar. All you all calling me judgemental for making this observation need to think again.

CougarPeasant wrote:
Teo who?!!!!

he's the guy that turned down the opportunity to play for a team that will finish in the top 10 this year to play on a team that didn't even play in a bowl game.

Italics wrote:

Teo who?!!!!

he's the guy that turned down the opportunity to play for a team that will finish in the top 10 this year to play on a team that didn't even play in a bowl game.

which Teo? ;)



I can think of two that had the chance to finish the top 10 and play in our bowl game...

And two who made the same choice that didn't allow them to be here.

CougarPeasant wrote:

Ozols wrote:
Interesting how the media called it a victory that someone isn't serving their Mormon mission.

The media also states he's playing for 3 more years.....

There is no way he plays 4 years at ND. He's gone to the NFL as soon as he is eligible.

Agreed. He's the only player on a mediocre defense, and he'll have gotten all the attention he heeded to go early in the draft.

frdbtr wrote:
I find it interesting that a generic statement like "I find it interesting when I hear kids in the media say they are inspired to not go on a mission when it is a commandment by the church leaders to go" makes people come on this board and call me a sinner for being judgmental. I don't know manti Teo, I don't pretend to know why he made the decision that he made. All I know is that if it is a commandment, then why would the Lord tell this young man not to go? I think that is a legit question since it would go against the nature of the Lord to command all worthy young men to go on missions, unless you are a talented athlete and can make millions in the NFL. That kind of thing just doesn't make sense to me since it would make the Lord a liar. All you all calling me judgemental for making this observation need to think again.

we are commanded not to cast final judgement which is saying teo will burn for his hasty decision, nothing wrong with the other kind of judgement.



There are a few, very limited examples of the Lord inspiring righteous men to disobey established commandments... Nephi kills Laban, joshua kills everybody, isaiah ( I think) was commanded to marry a harlot etc... And we know that the same general authorities who gave us the mission law have also said they teach general principles not their application.



That being said, nothing hypocritical or even BYU- bitterness about questioning someone's decision. And I didn't hear anyone passing final judgement on manti. Based on my understanding, I think he should have left on a mission and that his decisions have led him to this point

.



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holy crap enough about Teo already. We all wanted him to come, he didn't, so why do we continue to care what he does? I don't give a crap if he goes on a mission or not. That's between him, his family, and God.



I hereby make a motion to permanently banish back to CougarBlue ANYONE who starts another Manti Teo thread!

'The judge not, lest you be judged thing' is taken way too far. And it is impossible that a kid would get 'inspiration' contray to the commandments.

I am not judging what kind of person that this kid is because he is not going to go on a mission. What I was saying is, don't feed me a line about being "inspired" to do something that is contrary to what the leaders of the church have commanded "every worthy young man" to do. If he had come out in the media and said, I have decided to pursue a football career instead of going on a mission. I would not have commented on that language. He instead said that he was "inspired" to not serve. The two statements mean completely different things. Oh, and one last thing. I couldn't care less what this kid does at Notre dame or anywhere else. If he were at BYU then that would be different. I don't hate him for going somewhere else, that was his decision. I am a lot more concerned about the kids we have here doing what they are supposed to on and off the field then some kid that I have never met going to a school I care nothing about.

I want to get angry at the people in this thread, but then I remind myself that I AM THE ONE that clicked on it, knowing what would be inside.



Anyone that wants to turn this forum into a religious or moral one is off-base in my opinion. This is football people! Get over yourselves.



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Yeah, there's no place for morals, values, honesty, character, and so on in organized sports!! What a bunch of self righteous jerks who care about moral character as much as on-field play. They really ought to get over themselves for discussing anything that's not statistics. Dummy.