RM Keegan Hicks is another scholarship crunch casualty

ABYUFAN wrote:

...If Sitake was a man of integrity He’d take the Dave Rose approach and let the kid know that he has a scholarship for this year, but if there are no improvements, he will lose it in the future. My understanding is that scholarships are only for one year at a time. If Sitake didn’t have too much Kyle Whittingham in him, he’d be up front with the kid saying that “you don’t lose your scholarship by going on a mission.” He’d say “you lose your scholarship by being passed up. If you’re passed up this year, you’ll not have one next year, but we’re gonna give you the tools to succeed and the rest will be up to you.” Unfortunately, we now have Exhibit “A.” of Sitake’s integrity. I’d like this to be a one –off thing that can be forgiven rather than one of a trend. Time will tell.

My only issue with your position--which sounds like a great approach--is you don't address the original problem which is over-committed scholarships. I suppose Sitake could tell Handsome Tanielu that its great a 4-star JC guy at a position of need wants to come here, but I have to give this RM that Bronco recruited a scholarship this year. Sorry, maybe you can walk on this year and compete for a scholarship next year!



I don't think the communication to the kids by so many different people that they had a scholarship was the right thing to do--and that should be a lessons learned--the AD shouldn't be telling kids who has scholarships and who doesn't because that in the end isn't his call. That was probably part of the transition to hire a new coach and then when you have new staff--getting up to speed on the kids/scholarships/etc. But I give Sitake the benefit of the doubt. He didn't overcommit to all these kids. He's the one who has to clean up after the previous staff. The other 2 guys had committed just a few months ago and then suddenly they are out--and they handled it much better than Hicks did. Hicks seemed to be much more like Manu Mulitalo handled his falling out--where he complained on twitter about playing time and that the coaches were playing favorites right before suddenly dropped from the roster mid-season. I'm not sure where he ends up but in spite of the hard feelings I wish the kid well.

You guys that are upset with sitake need to see the reality of this. He needed to cut schollies because of the previous staff, if it wasn't hicks it would be someone else, mad about it. Sitake was hired to get the best football team possible if that means drop an o line player that is not going to contributes to get a stud d tackle I'm all for it. It's part of college coaching. Next fall I guarantee that if we did not have handsome on the d lin because we could not offer him a schollie and the opponents were running all over us. all these people bashing on sitake would be furious because we did not recruit better d line and that is what we thought sitake would do for us. I am sure you would not be saying it's ok our d line sucks because but good thing we kept that schollie for the 4th string lineman.

Reality is that is the way it goes if this kid is any good he will land on his feet somewhere if not he probably should not of ever been offered in the first place.

That being said I totally understand why the kI'd is mad because he thought he had a place but I'm in no ways upset with our coaching staff

Fido wrote:



My only issue with your position--which sounds like a great approach--is you don't address the original problem which is over-committed scholarships. I suppose Sitake could tell Handsome Tanielu that its great a 4-star JC guy at a position of need wants to come here, but I have to give this RM that Bronco recruited a scholarship this year. Sorry, maybe you can walk on this year and compete for a scholarship next year!



I don't think the communication to the kids by so many different people that they had a scholarship was the right thing to do--and that should be a lessons learned--the AD shouldn't be telling kids who has scholarships and who doesn't because that in the end isn't his call. That was probably part of the transition to hire a new coach and then when you have new staff--getting up to speed on the kids/scholarships/etc. But I give Sitake the benefit of the doubt. He didn't overcommit to all these kids. He's the one who has to clean up after the previous staff. The other 2 guys had committed just a few months ago and then suddenly they are out--and they handled it much better than Hicks did. Hicks seemed to be much more like Manu Mulitalo handled his falling out--where he complained on twitter about playing time and that the coaches were playing favorites right before suddenly dropped from the roster mid-season. I'm not sure where he ends up but in spite of the hard feelings I wish the kid well.

That's a good point, what do you do when a better recruit comes along at the last second? The easiest thing to do is to take the scholarship from a RM that you don't beleive is up to your standard. But is that the right thing?



It is easy to blame Mendenhall for "overcommiting" on scolarships, but I'm not sure that that's true. Sitake is the guy recruiting Handsome to come in when he (Sitake) has already got a full roster of scholarships. Isn't that like asking a prettier girl to the prom when you've already got a date? I don't think that any of us would be proud of our son if they did that. But the problem is compounded when you've got two people who really would seem tot he world to have authoprity on the subject promising a young man that he does have a scholarship, when, in fact, he ends up not having one.

ABYUFAN wrote:

My only issue with your position--which sounds like a great approach--is you don't address the original problem which is over-committed scholarships. I suppose Sitake could tell Handsome Tanielu that its great a 4-star JC guy at a position of need wants to come here, but I have to give this RM that Bronco recruited a scholarship this year. Sorry, maybe you can walk on this year and compete for a scholarship next year!



I don't think the communication to the kids by so many different people that they had a scholarship was the right thing to do--and that should be a lessons learned--the AD shouldn't be telling kids who has scholarships and who doesn't because that in the end isn't his call. That was probably part of the transition to hire a new coach and then when you have new staff--getting up to speed on the kids/scholarships/etc. But I give Sitake the benefit of the doubt. He didn't overcommit to all these kids. He's the one who has to clean up after the previous staff. The other 2 guys had committed just a few months ago and then suddenly they are out--and they handled it much better than Hicks did. Hicks seemed to be much more like Manu Mulitalo handled his falling out--where he complained on twitter about playing time and that the coaches were playing favorites right before suddenly dropped from the roster mid-season. I'm not sure where he ends up but in spite of the hard feelings I wish the kid well.

That's a good point, what do you do when a better recruit comes along at the last second? The easiest thing to do is to take the scholarship from a RM that you don't beleive is up to your standard. But is that the right thing?



It is easy to blame Mendenhall for "overcommiting" on scolarships, but I'm not sure that that's true. Sitake is the guy recruiting Handsome to come in when he (Sitake) has already got a full roster of scholarships. Isn't that like asking a prettier girl to the prom when you've already got a date? I don't think that any of us would be proud of our son if they did that. But the problem is compounded when you've got two people who really would seem tot he world to have authoprity on the subject promising a young man that he does have a scholarship, when, in fact, he ends up not having one.

It's more like you get a ticket to the dance from another guy who doesn't want to go to the dance then you decide to take your own girlfriend instead of his girlfriend.

ABYUFAN wrote:

My only issue with your position--which sounds like a great approach--is you don't address the original problem which is over-committed scholarships. I suppose Sitake could tell Handsome Tanielu that its great a 4-star JC guy at a position of need wants to come here, but I have to give this RM that Bronco recruited a scholarship this year. Sorry, maybe you can walk on this year and compete for a scholarship next year!



I don't think the communication to the kids by so many different people that they had a scholarship was the right thing to do--and that should be a lessons learned--the AD shouldn't be telling kids who has scholarships and who doesn't because that in the end isn't his call. That was probably part of the transition to hire a new coach and then when you have new staff--getting up to speed on the kids/scholarships/etc. But I give Sitake the benefit of the doubt. He didn't overcommit to all these kids. He's the one who has to clean up after the previous staff. The other 2 guys had committed just a few months ago and then suddenly they are out--and they handled it much better than Hicks did. Hicks seemed to be much more like Manu Mulitalo handled his falling out--where he complained on twitter about playing time and that the coaches were playing favorites right before suddenly dropped from the roster mid-season. I'm not sure where he ends up but in spite of the hard feelings I wish the kid well.

That's a good point, what do you do when a better recruit comes along at the last second? The easiest thing to do is to take the scholarship from a RM that you don't beleive is up to your standard. But is that the right thing?



It is easy to blame Mendenhall for "overcommiting" on scolarships, but I'm not sure that that's true. Sitake is the guy recruiting Handsome to come in when he (Sitake) has already got a full roster of scholarships. Isn't that like asking a prettier girl to the prom when you've already got a date? I don't think that any of us would be proud of our son if they did that. But the problem is compounded when you've got two people who really would seem tot he world to have authoprity on the subject promising a young man that he does have a scholarship, when, in fact, he ends up not having one.

So even with Tanielu out of the picture, the cougars are still overcommitted on scholarships by at least 4 before Hicks and the 2 2016 recruits were pulled. So yes, Bronco and staff overcommitted. This also doesn't include Taysom Hill if he decides to come back. That would be another cut to be made. I'm sure that Jamaal Williams threw the number off as well by missing last year but coming back this year.



Another person I wonder about is Mitchell Juergens. He was a walk-on who received a scholarship last year but I wonder if the scholarship is also good for this year too. Totally not sure how that works.

685277845669556224

Looks like Hans Olsen has some more of the facts the were left out in his complaint

sladesy wrote:
685277845669556224

Looks like Hans Olsen has some more of the facts the were left out in his complaint

That, if true, would completely change my opinion of the situation... The only way I can see this happening is if they are offering him an academic scholarship. My understanding of academic scholarships is that it cannot be used at all for the team, you cannot walk on to the team if on an academic scholarship. If that's the case, that he can get his school payed for but not be on the team, or be on the team but not get his school payed for, I'm fine with that tough decision being placed on him, and will bow out of the discussion. (I wonder, is the board's consensus that Hans Olsen is a reputable enough source for this? Doe he actually have knowledge of the situation?)

scott715 wrote:
Was he cut? Maybe he would be better served to go to a JC and then come to the Y. Sitaki should have offered that alternative. Less years of scholarships and he would be a better player his last two years.

Put yourself in his shoes, why would he want to return to BYU?

I did a little more reading up on Keegan Hicks.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705398323/BYU-football-Cougars-pick-up-2013-commit-from-Bingham-offensive-lineman-Keegan-Hicks.html?pg=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



He was originally recruited by Mark Weber and Brandon Doman and committed as a junior in 2012.



https://byu.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1459039" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



In 2013 Weber and Doman both left BYU and Hicks met with Anae. "With how early I committed I never really gave myself a chance to be recruited by anybody else besides BYU so I've never really talked to him." He also mentioned that with Weber moving on to Utah State he was being contacted by them but he blew them off because he would rather go to BYU.



In 2013 he was a greyshirt due to not being cleared medically because of his shoulder injury and then left on a mission--returning in late 2015 after talking with Tujague.



He was a top 30 center on Scout.com back in 2012. But it feels like his contacts at BYU have come and gone twice since he was recruited and such an early commit. With his injury it means he probably hasn't played football since 2012. I wonder what kind of shape he is in and if that has factored in the equation.



I wonder if Utah State might still be a possibility with his connections to Weber. It sounds like the guys who were after him were Weber/Doman/Anae/Tujague. None of whom are still with BYU. Timing and injuries have just not conspired well here.

Outch.



I don't think we're seeing both sides of the coin. Bronco left Sitake with a mess. Keep in mind even if Bronco had stayed, there still would have been a scholarship crunch. Hicks might still have gotten cut. It probably would have been handled better, though. Sitake is a new guy less than a month on the job.



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ABYUFAN wrote:

685277845669556224

Looks like Hans Olsen has some more of the facts the were left out in his complaint

That, if true, would completely change my opinion of the situation... The only way I can see this happening is if they are offering him an academic scholarship. My understanding of academic scholarships is that it cannot be used at all for the team, you cannot walk on to the team if on an academic scholarship. If that's the case, that he can get his school payed for but not be on the team, or be on the team but not get his school payed for, I'm fine with that tough decision being placed on him, and will bow out of the discussion. (I wonder, is the board's consensus that Hans Olsen is a reputable enough source for this? Doe he actually have knowledge of the situation?)

That's a huge game changer if true that they offered him free school still. I don't think Hans would lie about something that could be so black and white. There's no gray room for him to wiggle out of its false.



I've never heard you can't play if you're on an academic scholly. I can see why that would be a rule but didn't Corbin kaufusi play basketball on a football scholarship for a year? If you can cross sports that would be just as easy to cheat as crossing academic scholarships. Just destroy your baseball team and open up all those baseball scholarships to football players



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Yes, there is a rule that you can't play sports on an academic scholarship, unless your school doesn't provide athletic scholarships.

The fact of the matter is that if you get upset that players transfer from BYU to UVA (or any other school with the coaching change) but don't get upset that player/recruitss get their promised scholarships cut, then that's a problem. Players need to do whats best for them because the coaching staff has their own interests.

vancouvercougar wrote:

Fido wrote:



My only issue with your position--which sounds like a great approach--is you don't address the original problem which is over-committed scholarships. I suppose Sitake could tell Handsome Tanielu that its great a 4-star JC guy at a position of need wants to come here, but I have to give this RM that Bronco recruited a scholarship this year. Sorry, maybe you can walk on this year and compete for a scholarship next year!



I don't think the communication to the kids by so many different people that they had a scholarship was the right thing to do--and that should be a lessons learned--the AD shouldn't be telling kids who has scholarships and who doesn't because that in the end isn't his call. That was probably part of the transition to hire a new coach and then when you have new staff--getting up to speed on the kids/scholarships/etc. But I give Sitake the benefit of the doubt. He didn't overcommit to all these kids. He's the one who has to clean up after the previous staff. The other 2 guys had committed just a few months ago and then suddenly they are out--and they handled it much better than Hicks did. Hicks seemed to be much more like Manu Mulitalo handled his falling out--where he complained on twitter about playing time and that the coaches were playing favorites right before suddenly dropped from the roster mid-season. I'm not sure where he ends up but in spite of the hard feelings I wish the kid well.

That's a good point, what do you do when a better recruit comes along at the last second? The easiest thing to do is to take the scholarship from a RM that you don't beleive is up to your standard. But is that the right thing?



It is easy to blame Mendenhall for "overcommiting" on scolarships, but I'm not sure that that's true. Sitake is the guy recruiting Handsome to come in when he (Sitake) has already got a full roster of scholarships. Isn't that like asking a prettier girl to the prom when you've already got a date? I don't think that any of us would be proud of our son if they did that. But the problem is compounded when you've got two people who really would seem tot he world to have authoprity on the subject promising a young man that he does have a scholarship, when, in fact, he ends up not having one.

It's more like you get a ticket to the dance from another guy who doesn't want to go to the dance then you decide to take your own girlfriend instead of his girlfriend.

I would say it's more like a blind date, not someone else's date since he committed to BYU and not Bronco.



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Sorry if this idea has already been thrown out there; but I don't recall that it was so I'm throwing it out there...



Now that he will not be going to BYU, what are the odds that he either has or will contact Bronco and company about a UVA football scholarship, or they contact him? If he was good enough to be offered a scholarship at the Y, is he good enough to receive one at UVA? Maybe BM can use him.

I highly doubt that. Their class is full and he's probably not good enough. But he could be one of those 25 year old men playing to give an unfair advantage.

scott715 wrote:
I highly doubt that. Their class is full.

Didn't stop Bronco from offering him a scholarship the first time around...

hawkwing wrote:
The fact of the matter is that if you get upset that players transfer from BYU to UVA (or any other school with the coaching change) but don't get upset that player/recruitss get their promised scholarships cut, then that's a problem. Players need to do whats best for them because the coaching staff has their own interests.

I've never had a problem with kids transferring, my problem is with coaches trying to take kids with them. I agree the player should do what's best for them and the NCAA transfer rules are a lot of times stacked against them. I think they should make a list of special circumstances that allows a player to transfer without having to sit out a year. A coach transfer isn't one of them, but maybe for schools with serious recruiting violations or when coaches get in legal trouble or the school has changes in academic standing or safety or hinge like that.