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Trump's financial and political links to Russia, Putin and Russian mob

by BlueK · 7/27/2016

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Ddawg
BoiseBYU wrote:
Trump has never said Russia was good. Trump did say having a relationship with Putin would be a "wonderful thing." That is true. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. The relationship would have to be based on strength - and trust. A trust that we would kick Russia's a$$ if they interfere in U.S. interests in the Middle East, Ukraine, or anywhere else. Respect comes from a position of strength and power. Obama has zero of that. Obama is spineless and Putin has ZERO respect for the arrogant Child King.



I will state for the record - Putin is a great leader. He's been kicking Obama's a$$ at every turn for 8 years. Putin has Russia's interest 100% front and center. Obama and Hillary do NOT. Their concern is personal power, personal wealth, and advancing Dem Party power and control.



Putin is smart, conniving, wise, and always moving Russian interests forward. Nothing of the kind can be said about Obama or Hillary. They are driven by selfish-self interests and the Socialist agenda.


I guess I have a different understanding of "great leader." Putin is a bloody murderer who has no compunction killing his opponents and slaughtering his own citizens if it advances his interests. He has no compunction supporting murderous dictators too. Putin lovers claim Putin acts in the interests of Russia, but they are simply fooled. Putin acts only in the interests of Putin. It is shameful that Trump finds Putin admirable.


Putin is a great leader. He's not a "great" person. As a person, he's despicable. And yes, Putin does take care of himself - but - he ALWAYS moves Russia forward. Russia is in a much more powerful and advanced position than when Putin took over. He's increasing their influence, their power, their position, and prestige. That is a great leader.



Obama has done NOTHING to increase U.S. power, influence or prestige. Our allies think we are wussies and do not have their back (Israel) and our enemies (China, Russia, Iran, N. Korea) do not fear us anymore - not at all.
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Mars
Ddawg wrote:
Putin is a great leader. He's not a "great" person. As a person, he's despicable. And yes, Putin does take care of himself - but - he ALWAYS moves Russia forward.

I would put forth that a "despicable" person, by definition, CANNOT be "a great leader", as great leaders must needs also be great EXAMPLES to their people.



He could still be a great lawyer though. ;)
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Ddawg
Mars wrote:
Putin is a great leader. He's not a "great" person. As a person, he's despicable. And yes, Putin does take care of himself - but - he ALWAYS moves Russia forward.

I would put forth that a "despicable" person, by definition, CANNOT be "a great leader", as great leaders must needs also be great EXAMPLES to their people.



He could still be a great lawyer though. ;)


I understand you are being "tongue in cheek." But, a great leader does not always have to be a great person - or a good friend - or a buddy. There is the "ideal" leader. Few people measure up to the "ideal." Patton was a great leader - and definitely not a buddy or a friend.



The number 1 metric for measuring a leader is - does he fulfill the mission of the organization and move the organization forward. Mission accomplishment. Organizational function and readiness. Putin does that. He strengthens Russia, increases their power, protects Russia's interests, and increases their sphere of influence. Obama on the other hand does none of those things. Obama is a miserable failure.
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Cougarfan87
Mars wrote:
Putin is a great leader. He's not a "great" person. As a person, he's despicable. And yes, Putin does take care of himself - but - he ALWAYS moves Russia forward.

I would put forth that a "despicable" person, by definition, CANNOT be "a great leader", as great leaders must needs also be great EXAMPLES to their people.



He could still be a great lawyer though. ;)


Ouch. :gross: :sulk: :munch: :angry: :sulk: :skeptic: :roll: :whistle: :lol:
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BoiseBYU
Ddawg wrote:
Ddawg wrote:
Putin is a great leader. He's not a "great" person. As a person, he's despicable. And yes, Putin does take care of himself - but - he ALWAYS moves Russia forward.

I would put forth that a "despicable" person, by definition, CANNOT be "a great leader", as great leaders must needs also be great EXAMPLES to their people.



He could still be a great lawyer though. ;)


I understand you are being "tongue in cheek." But, a great leader does not always have to be a great person - or a good friend - or a buddy. There is the "ideal" leader. Few people measure up to the "ideal." Patton was a great leader - and definitely not a buddy or a friend.



The number 1 metric for measuring a leader is - does he fulfill the mission of the organization and move the organization forward. Mission accomplishment. Organizational function and readiness. Putin does that. He strengthens Russia, increases their power, protects Russia's interests, and increases their sphere of influence. Obama on the other hand does none of those things. Obama is a miserable failure.


I disagree. Stalin will never be a "great leader" in my book. He certainly moved a murderous evil forward, as does Putin, but that is not a "great" leader. That is an all powerful demagogue. Call Putin what he is--a great murderer, or a great autocrat. A leader "leads." Putin does not lead. He murders and beats you into submission.
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BlueK
BlueK wrote:
Putin is playing strongman smoke and mirrors with his people to deflect their attention away from their miserable economy. Typical ruthless dictator garbage. There is NOTHING to admire here. And if it weren't for Trump getting the nomination there wouldn't be a single republican even coming close to attempting to defend Trump's ridiculous comments about Putin.



http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/09/vladimir-putin-is-not-strong-when-it-comes-to-russias-economy.html
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Cougarfan87
I get Ddawg's point that Putin is an effective person at advancing Russian interest. However, I disagree with the term "great" leader. A leader is one who influences people in their thoughts and actions. You don't necessarily have to be in charge of anything to be a leader. A great leader is one who influences people to be better and do great things. An effective leader is one who influences people to do what he/she wants.



So, great leader...Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, King Benjamin, etc.

Effective leader...Satan, Hitler, Mussolini, etc.
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BlueK
Cougarfan87 wrote:
I get Ddawg's point that Putin is an effective person at advancing Russian interest. However, I disagree with the term "great" leader. A leader is one who influences people in their thoughts and actions. You don't necessarily have to be in charge of anything to be a leader. A great leader is one who influences people to be better and do great things. An effective leader is one who influences people to do what he/she wants.



So, great leader...Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, King Benjamin, etc.

Effective leader...Satan, Hitler, Mussolini, etc.


But it's not even Russian interest he's advancing as his people are suffering. It's his personal interest he is advancing.



and if this isn't crazy enough for Trump, he's also made similar comments about Kim Jong Un and also expressed admiration for the way China handled Tianamen Square. For the current nominee of what was Ronald Reagan's party to talk about that ruthless crackdown on human rights in any degree of positive is just repulsive.
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Cougarfan87
BlueK wrote:
I get Ddawg's point that Putin is an effective person at advancing Russian interest. However, I disagree with the term "great" leader. A leader is one who influences people in their thoughts and actions. You don't necessarily have to be in charge of anything to be a leader. A great leader is one who influences people to be better and do great things. An effective leader is one who influences people to do what he/she wants.



So, great leader...Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, King Benjamin, etc.

Effective leader...Satan, Hitler, Mussolini, etc.


But it's not even Russian interest he's advancing as his people are suffering. It's his personal interest he is advancing.



and if this isn't crazy enough for Trump, he's also made similar comments about Kim Jong Un and also expressed admiration for the way China handled Tianamen Square. For the current nominee of what was Ronald Reagan's party to talk about that ruthless crackdown on human rights in any degree of positive is just repulsive.


Totally agree. It is very unwise to show any kind of admiration for dictators, no matter how effective they are at pushing their own agenda.
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BoiseBYU
Cougarfan87 wrote:
I get Ddawg's point that Putin is an effective person at advancing Russian interest. However, I disagree with the term "great" leader. A leader is one who influences people in their thoughts and actions. You don't necessarily have to be in charge of anything to be a leader. A great leader is one who influences people to be better and do great things. An effective leader is one who influences people to do what he/she wants.



So, great leader...Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, King Benjamin, etc.

Effective leader...Satan, Hitler, Mussolini, etc.


Putin is not advancing "Russia's interests." The economy is worse off, the people are poorer, productivity is down the the citizens are less healthy. There is no free media. Religion is suppressed. Sure some of the people are happy that Russia seized the Crimea and other take pride in that they are propping up Assad, bombing hospitals and killing children, but is this really advancing the interests of Russia's people? Putin is effective at advancing Putin, but not because of talent but because he is sheared of all morals and values and is willing to murder and despoil if it stands in his way. We want to admire that? God help us.
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BoiseBYU
BoiseBYU wrote:
I get Ddawg's point that Putin is an effective person at advancing Russian interest. However, I disagree with the term "great" leader. A leader is one who influences people in their thoughts and actions. You don't necessarily have to be in charge of anything to be a leader. A great leader is one who influences people to be better and do great things. An effective leader is one who influences people to do what he/she wants.



So, great leader...Jesus Christ, the prophets and apostles, King Benjamin, etc.

Effective leader...Satan, Hitler, Mussolini, etc.


Putin is not advancing "Russia's interests." The economy is worse off, the people are poorer, productivity is down the the citizens are less healthy. There is no free media. Religion is suppressed. Sure some of the people are happy that Russia seized the Crimea and other take pride in that they are propping up Assad, bombing hospitals and killing children, but is this really advancing the interests of Russia's people? Putin is effective at advancing Putin, but not because of talent but because he is sheared of all morals and values and is willing to murder and despoil if it stands in his way. We want to admire that? God help us.

I see someone else made the same point and no doubt more effectively. I do not mean to appear to be piling on.
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Ddawg
You guys are confusing being a complete, total, "good person and a good leader" with just being a "good leader."



I get your point of view. I have been a serious student of leadership for 20+ years. Part of my resume is, I went to and graduated from the West Point Leadership Academy. It was an intensive 3 month program that lasted for 3 months, 8 hours a day, with 3-4 hours of homework every night. Every Friday we had a closed book 2 hour exam. It was not an easy course. I graduated with honors. I understand a skosh about leadership. I think we are having a semantic disagreement. Certainly a "definition" disagreement.



Jimmy Carter was a good man. A terrible leader.



Of the Top 10 Leaders of the 20th Century - Adolph Hitler is rated #2. A horrible person. A very effective leader for Germany, until his psycho craziness undid him.



Joseph Stalin is rated #4 for the 20th Century Leaders. He was a worse murderer than Hitler.



It's a rare thing to get a good man and a good leader in 1 package. When we have a Moroni, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Ronald Reagan - it's a rare thing.
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BoiseBYU
Ddawg wrote:
You guys are confusing being a complete, total, "good person and a good leader" with just being a "good leader."



I get your point of view. I have been a serious student of leadership for 20+ years. Part of my resume is, I went to and graduated from the West Point Leadership Academy. It was an intensive 3 month program that lasted for 3 months, 8 hours a day, with 3-4 hours of homework every night. Every Friday we had a closed book 2 hour exam. It was not an easy course. I graduated with honors. I understand a skosh about leadership. I think we are having a semantic disagreement. Certainly a "definition" disagreement.



Jimmy Carter was a good man. A terrible leader.



Of the Top 10 Leaders of the 20th Century - Adolph Hitler is rated #2. A horrible person. A very effective leader for Germany, until his psycho craziness undid him.



Joseph Stalin is rated #4 for the 20th Century Leaders. He was a worse murderer than Hitler.



It's a rare thing to get a good man and a good leader in 1 package. When we have a Moroni, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or Ronald Reagan - it's a rare thing.


I think You are right that we have a definitional issue. I don't think I'm confusing good guys with good leaders. In my book, a "great" leader is not great because he accomplishes something. And it is not because he or she is a good,person. I get that. I think a leader is great if he or she left things better. The Stalins and Hitlers and Putins have accomplished things to be sure, but only because they were willing to slaughter, silence, poison, strangle and kill people and in the end things were not better. But to the point here, Trump thinks Putin is just "great." In a world where might makes right, maybe that makes sense. But it is sickening. I do not want my President admiring such a monster.
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