2010 WR's

kitic77 wrote:
John Beck's deep ball was extremely overrated. He had a cannon, and decent accuracy. And he didn't throw it nearly as well his SR year as he did previously. Both Max and Beck consistently underthrew McKay when they played with him. But yes, simply having the ability to throw it deep helped Beck and certainly limited what BYU could do offensively to a degree.



If I were to judge Heaps' arm, I'd put it somewhere between the two QBs. I do think that he could have more accuracy than either QB though.

That is a big statement. Max was extremely accurate.

Max was 65% for his career, Beck was 62%. I think Heaps can be right up there.

Completion % is great, but does not tell the whole story. But both those rates are very good.



I just want to see what types of routes Heaps arm will allow BYU to throw. With Beck, arm strength allowed for more deep outs, etc. With Max, that route almost never was employed, and he threw most balls 5-7 yards or less. Personally, I think heaps is more like a Max Hall than a John Beck, so I expect more ball control passing than aerial attack. Of course, the BSU QB is no strong arm kid either, and they attack with him, so who knows. I think the WR determine it. More speed at WR equals more options.

kitic77 wrote:
Max was 65% for his career, Beck was 62%. I think Heaps can be right up there.

For the throws that Max made his % is more impressive. Beck was a lot better about checking down to the RB in the flat when nothing down field was open. He made a lot of throws to Curtis Brown that would be considered low risk. I actually wish Max did that more. Hopefully Heaps or whoever will throw to the RB's more. Unga's receiptions are way down from his freshman year.

kitic77 wrote:
John Beck's deep ball was extremely overrated. He had a cannon, and decent accuracy.

I remember in Beck's sophmore season he threw a touchdown to Dan Coats,just about 15 yard pass on a crossing route i believe,and from where I was sitting you really couldn't see the pass leave his hand,it was moving so fast.That same year against I believe AF he went deep and connected several times with Watkins/Collie for long scores.We were just able to get deep a lot more often when we had 2 guys on the field who could consistently get deep,although as we all remember while Watkins was no 50/50,he dropped his share, particularly in that game vs. ND.Anyway,I still am scratching my head over Beck.What has held him back in the NFL?Initially i thought it was just finding the right situation,but if you can't climb past Troy Smith on the depth chart, what does that say about your chances?He definitely has had the strongest arm in my recollection of Cougar passing greats.

I think we have just seen the beginning of Ashworth and Hafoka. Ashworth has great hands and makes difficult grabs, holding on very well while being hit. Hafoka is a gazelle after the catch, and Ashworth is also good at feinting past DB's. Jacobsen and Chambers are proven commodities as well, and they both should be improved and very good. I therefore agree that some of these new awesome WR recruits will likely be red-shirted. We're stacked for the future.



Regarding Beck, I think he was elite at deep accuracy, and definately more accurate than Max on the deep ball. However, Max was very accurate at intermediate distance (15 to 25 yards). In the NFL, Beck just needs to be the guy on the field regularly with his familiar targets, and be allowed time to find his groove. He struggled at times with BYU, but once he found his groove, he was elite. Beck's deep pass release was a beautiful thing to watch.



I would agree, that Heaps is likely to be somewhat between Hall and Beck in abilities and character on the field. He should be great.

Mars wrote:


Two thoughts:



1- The WRs were the weakness of the offense last year. The LBs were the weakness of the defense. Both will be upgraded this season.



2- Beck, bless his heart, badly overthrew 2 of every 3 deep passes.

1. Agreed. Even though we're going to be less experienced at LB this year, I think we're more talented and several of the LBs who will be in the mix are freshman who will have the benefit of spring ball. The WRs are only going to get better with more speed and more size on the outside. I also think adding an H-back with speed like Phillips could also open things up more than another TE did.



2. Beck also underthrew McKay at least three times when he had the defense beat. McKay could have about six or seven more TD catches already in his career if he Beck and Hall had more accuracy and/or velocity on their deep balls.

mizzoucoug wrote:
I don't belive MJ is very close to AC as a route runner, but yeah, he's only played 1 season since the mission so we'll see. As for Apo, I don't have any problem with this guy taking snaps in place of Chambers if he is looking good. I never understood the fascination with Reed and I feel the same about Chambers at WR. Those guys don't stretch the field well enough at all to say for sure they are deserving starters. Let them play it out in spring ball.

I completely agree, other than 2 or 3 pretty good kick returns Chambers hasn't done much to impress me. I hope he breaks out this year but I wouldn't be surprised if he got passed up by some of our other receivers.

Mars wrote:


Two thoughts:



1- The WRs were the weakness of the offense last year. The LBs were the weakness of the defense. Both will be upgraded this season.



2- Beck, bless his heart, badly overthrew 2 of every 3 deep passes.

I felt that the LBs did their job, but the DL made it tough on everyone. They got NO pressure behind the line of scrimmage.

declocoug wrote:

Two thoughts:



1- The WRs were the weakness of the offense last year. The LBs were the weakness of the defense. Both will be upgraded this season.



2- Beck, bless his heart, badly overthrew 2 of every 3 deep passes.

I felt that the LBs did their job, but the DL made it tough on everyone. They got NO pressure behind the line of scrimmage.

I agree. the Lbs were adequate, but as a group, not outstanding. With Russel T's weight loss, they really lacked power in the middle. I hope Ethan M. will be in good enough condition to correct that deficiency. I think that the LBs will be improved, and hope that the DEs will be at least as good. With better play in the middle, they would have been a lot better last year.

Sure the WRs were PROBABLY the least efficient part of our offense (which was top, what, 5 in the whole country?), some of you seem like the glass is half empty type, am I right?

agreed schmoe, I never had a problem with the WR play. Even the DL I was complaining about was great against the run. We're pretty blessed when these are the "glaring" weaknesses on the team.

I think I made it sound like I thought the D-line was bad. I agree that they were very good against the run. What they lacked was the ability to get consistant pressure on the QB. Outstanding LBs would have made that better as well. I think we were pretty spoiled in the days of Kehl and Poppinga. I think those days are returning soon. :)

bigbluepuma wrote:
I think I made it sound like I thought the D-line was bad. I agree that they were very good against the run. What they lacked was the ability to get consistant pressure on the QB. Outstanding LBs would have made that better as well. I think we were pretty spoiled in the days of Kehl and Poppinga. I think those days are returning soon. :)

This would be because our inside linebackers. if they were better, we could have let jorgenson loose more often. the dline had to be more concerned with plugging holes than getting to the quarterback. i agree the linebackers we have coming in will change that.

Schmoe wrote:
Sure the WRs were PROBABLY the least efficient part of our offense (which was top, what, 5 in the whole country?), some of you seem like the glass is half empty type, am I right?

As a whole, they were great. I think the comparisons are coming in with how these guys did v. the top talent we played. Fact is, we are not comparing stats v. how they did against Wyoming, we want to compare v. TCU, Utah, FSU, OU, etc. You want to measure up against the best, not the mediocre of worst. And in that regard, these guys did struggle v. the best talent we played against. If the goal is to be in national title contention, improvements are a must.



I also want to not that I think a part of it was the schemes we ran, and emphasis on using Pitta and George, who were an exceptional tandem of seniors. This was done, at times, to the detriment of the WR position. BYU simply played to strength.

Hmmm...vs OK our WRs had 117 yards and one touchdown, our TEs had 116 yards and one score, and our RBs (receiving) had 96 yards and no scores.

vs FSU the WRs had 173 yards and one score, our TEs had 82 yards and no scores, and our RBs (receiving) had 102 yards and two scores.

vs TCU our WRs had 77 yards and no scores, our TEs had 67 yards and no scores, and our RBs (receiving) had 44 yards and one score.

vs Utah our WRs had 45 yards and no scores, our TEs had 74 yards and one score, and our RBs (receiving) had 15 yards and one score.



I'm not seeing where exactly our WRs are falling short, seeing as they lead our team in every game except Utah, even with the emphasis on our great TEs and tendency to check down to the RBs.