Please comfort me. Tell me Romney will never rep Utah again

I am so embarrassed of him. To say "his deep Mormon faith played a significant role in his decision" to vote for conviction on the phone call when allllllll the evidence proves otherwise. The transcript, the UKr. President, the payment details, and so on. They have nothing. Admit it Romney, you have joined Harry Reid and sold your soul for filthy lucre. He is voting this way because his son was also hired by a UKr gas/oil company along with Pelosi's kid too.

Please tell me the people living in Utah see him for what he truly is, a member of the establishment. This explains why he graciously let Obama off the hook in the second debate. Why he never stood up to them and let the Dems say and do whatever. He pulled a George W Bush and rolled over for the sake of the establishment. You can say what you want Mitt but none of that will work when you (and Harry) stand in front of the judgement bar.

Interesting comments here. I'm curious to see how you think Donald Trump will fare when he stands before the judgement bar if you think Mitt is going to be in trouble for taking a principled stand.

hawkwing wrote:

Interesting comments here. I'm curious to see how you think Donald Trump will fare when he stands before the judgement bar if you think Mitt is going to be in trouble for taking a principled stand.

I didn't know Donnie had been through the temple. (Hard to make excuses when you have). As for his principled stand, it's a farce. His hatred for DT is palpable. And he asked for Trump's endorsement. That my friend is called stabbing someone in the back. There is only evidence that Trump has done nothing to deserve impeachment but Romney made excuses and is trying to spin it like he came to some great conclusion. He reminds of a member that I reported to who always twisted his words to deceive all the time thinking he didn't really lie. He cut out from work to play golf one sunny day. Came back the next day sunburned. When asked he said he got it playing on sunday. I know he didn't play on Sundays but his play was that of sun-day a day with a lot of sun not the weekday Sunday. BTW this person was also a Bishop at the time.

imuakahuku wrote:

Interesting comments here. I'm curious to see how you think Donald Trump will fare when he stands before the judgement bar if you think Mitt is going to be in trouble for taking a principled stand.

I didn't know Donnie had been through the temple. (Hard to make excuses when you have). As for his principled stand, it's a farce. His hatred for DT is palpable. And he asked for Trump's endorsement. That my friend is called stabbing someone in the back. There is only evidence that Trump has done nothing to deserve impeachment but Romney made excuses and is trying to spin it like he came to some great conclusion. He reminds of a member that I reported to who always twisted his words to deceive all the time thinking he didn't really lie. He cut out from work to play golf one sunny day. Came back the next day sunburned. When asked he said he got it playing on sunday. I know he didn't play on Sundays but his play was that of sun-day a day with a lot of sun not the weekday Sunday. BTW this person was also a Bishop at the time.

I didn't realize that Christians who hadn't been through the Temple wouldn't face the judgement bar of God to be judged on the light and knowledge that they had received even if it was not a fullness. Thank you for sharing that gospel insight I'd never heard before. It was my prior understanding that all would stand before the judgement bar of God.

I've been a registered GOP guy for well over 30 years. Honestly I would have voted the same way that Romney did, and I would have been disappointed with myself if I had done otherwise.

ABYUFAN wrote:

I've been a registered GOP guy for well over 30 years. Honestly I would have voted the same way that Romney did, and I would have been disappointed with myself if I had done otherwise.

I wouldn't have been able to stand before the judgement bar and said I held true to God and my conscious if I had voted any other way that Mitt. He's going to take a lot of flack for it, which increases the amount of respect I have for him for doing what he thinks was right.



But I'm not here to cast doubt on people who are able to successfully separate morality and following the Gospel from politics. Everyone goes into these aspects of their life differently.

So please tell me what was the impeachable offense.

hawkwing wrote:

I've been a registered GOP guy for well over 30 years. Honestly I would have voted the same way that Romney did, and I would have been disappointed with myself if I had done otherwise.

I wouldn't have been able to stand before the judgement bar and said I held true to God and my conscious if I had voted any other way that Mitt. He's going to take a lot of flack for it, which increases the amount of respect I have for him for doing what he thinks was right.



But I'm not here to cast doubt on people who are able to successfully separate morality and following the Gospel from politics. Everyone goes into these aspects of their life differently.

I'm a big "reasonable minds can differ" guy. I have no problem with someone else not seeing enough there to remove the President.



That said, I have a lot of pride in the Republican party as the only party to have a senator willing to place his conscience over his party affiliation when it comes to a vote to remove the president. The Democrats have twice had the opportunity to have a senator vote to remove their President for clear violations of the law, and both times have chosen not to do so. The Republicans are the only party to have anyone vote to follow the law over following their party's line, and that is a very good thing.

To vote to convict Trump he had to bend reason and truth to get to his so called moral place. The President was not guilty of any impeachable offense. So how do you moralize a vote to convict for impeachment if he did not commit any impeachable offense?



As for the judgement bar, D&C 18:15 but in reverse.

I admire Senator Romney for standing up to Trump’s efforts to use the awesome power of the Presidency to hold up constitutionally appropriated military aid to Ukraine (the quid) until it announces investigations that directly benefit his personal election campaign (the quo). Ukraine is a country that is desperately trying to defend itself from Russian invaders and trying to establish a democratic form of government but Trump was willing to stiff them until they helped his campaign. Romney showed a courage that we see lacking in our leaders today in condemning that action. Nearly all of our leaders have turned into tribalists these days that put party over principle. Today Romney stood out differently and he has my respect as a result.

Sorry but that’s the Democratic lies told by Shiff and Pelosi. We have the transcript that gives verbatim what was said. He said “do us a favor” referring to the US and later even expounded on it. He is also under two obligations the first to ensure that all funds are used properly, and as the chief of the executive (read enforcement) he is bound by treaty with UKr to investigate any known or suspected corruption. Biden is on video bragging that he did the very thing Dems accuses Trump of doing. Also, this should be coming out soon but Obama gave millions to UKr our tax dollars to support UKr oil and gas. Here is your Illegal quid pro quo. Also Trump released the funds to UKr before the due date that it had to be given. No UKr person was aware that Trump was considering holding up the funds, note considering because by definition he did not hold them up if he released them prior to the required date given by Congress when they appropriated the funds. Although Obama did and Russia annexed a part of UKr while he was still President. Also he only provided MREs and blankets, while Trump provided weaponry and ammunition including javelin anti tank mussels which would have destroyed any tank entering UKr soil. Lastly every negotiation has a quid pro quo, please don’t fall for this misdirection. When we give aid to governments we expect certain behaviors such as democratic elections, honoring human rights, no corruption and so on. We would be stupid to just give money and not demand these behaviors. Could you imagine giving 100’s of billions of our tax dollars to say the biggest state sponsor of terrorism? Oh wait Iran.

I repeat, Trump broke no law, and all the fact prove that phone call was 100% legit. Also, the so called whistleblower was not even a witness and every claim he (with Shiffs help) made up was proven false? And how was this guy Charamella, even given a status above whistle blowers protections? First he was not a witness so you can’t be a whistleblower, second you don’t get anonymity you just get protected from reprisals. And then the accused is not given his Constitutional right to face his accuser and defend himself from the accusations. And there is a lot more these people did that was so devious and unlawful. And Romney sided with them. Whether you like Romney or not, he betrayed all conservatives, righteousness, the constitution, and all Republicans. And worse yet he pulled all us into it saying his Mormon faith made him do it. Well my Mormon faith tells me to reject evil and siding with the Democrat leadership is straight evil. These are the people giving standing ovations for infanticide. And I would debate Romney any time on all this including the remark that his Mormon faith made him do it. He lied plain and simple and I just showed much of the evidence that proves it.

imuakahuku wrote:

Sorry but that’s the Democratic lies told by Shiff and Pelosi. We have the transcript that gives verbatim what was said. He said “do us a favor” referring to the US and later even expounded on it. He is also under two obligations the first to ensure that all funds are used properly, and as the chief of the executive (read enforcement) he is bound by treaty with UKr to investigate any known or suspected corruption. Biden is on video bragging that he did the very thing Dems accuses Trump of doing. Also, this should be coming out soon but Obama gave millions to UKr our tax dollars to support UKr oil and gas. Here is your Illegal quid pro quo. Also Trump released the funds to UKr before the due date that it had to be given. No UKr person was aware that Trump was considering holding up the funds, note considering because by definition he did not hold them up if he released them prior to the required date given by Congress when they appropriated the funds. Although Obama did and Russia annexed a part of UKr while he was still President. Also he only provided MREs and blankets, while Trump provided weaponry and ammunition including javelin anti tank mussels which would have destroyed any tank entering UKr soil. Lastly every negotiation has a quid pro quo, please don’t fall for this misdirection. When we give aid to governments we expect certain behaviors such as democratic elections, honoring human rights, no corruption and so on. We would be stupid to just give money and not demand these behaviors. Could you imagine giving 100’s of billions of our tax dollars to say the biggest state sponsor of terrorism? Oh wait Iran.

I repeat, Trump broke no law, and all the fact prove that phone call was 100% legit. Also, the so called whistleblower was not even a witness and every claim he (with Shiffs help) made up was proven false? And how was this guy Charamella, even given a status above whistle blowers protections? First he was not a witness so you can’t be a whistleblower, second you don’t get anonymity you just get protected from reprisals. And then the accused is not given his Constitutional right to face his accuser and defend himself from the accusations. And there is a lot more these people did that was so devious and unlawful. And Romney sided with them. Whether you like Romney or not, he betrayed all conservatives, righteousness, the constitution, and all Republicans. And worse yet he pulled all us into it saying his Mormon faith made him do it. Well my Mormon faith tells me to reject evil and siding with the Democrat leadership is straight evil. These are the people giving standing ovations for infanticide. And I would debate Romney any time on all this including the remark that his Mormon faith made him do it. He lied plain and simple and I just showed much of the evidence that proves it.

The Trump transcript includes a “though” after do us a favor. So we had a quid pro quo— leveraging a held up congressional appropriation for personal political gain. Trump released the funds after the whistleblower complaint. That is after they knew they’d been caught. A reasonable mind could conclude that that behavior is worthy of conviction. You will not find me raving though, with those senators who determined that what Trump did does not meet the bar of what they think is an impeachable offense. I think it is. But I certainly can understand and respect Senator Romney for determining that it is and being true to his conscience as a result. You are way off base in saying that Romney betrayed conservatives, righteousness, the Cobstitution etc. There is nothing about Donald Trump that is conservative or righteous. And even had Trump been convicted, his replacement would be Mike Pence, a conservative man in his own right. Your ranting is unbecoming.

It's called TDS or Trump Derangement Syndrome. Romney looks at the same screen as you and I do but sees something very different. It's not that he won't see the amazingly good things Trump is doing for America and the world, it's that he can't see them. Romney's reality sees most things Trump does as having evil intent and requires him to act towards Trump as he does.



Romney can't help it and I don't think it's his fault. Once you're part of the tiny group that runs the world (running the US = running the world) with very little accountability and constant adulation you are irrevocably changed and you have a large support group dependent on you to not change back. It's the fault of Utah's voters who elected him either by voting for him or by voting for a candidate who has no chance of winning or not voting at all. We feel and look good despite the destruction we are bringing (aka virtue signalling).



Imuakahuku, I wish I had good scripture for you. The War in Heaven continues in mortality especially here in Utah. It's a frustrating battle where no one's mind can be changed and facts and logic lose every single time. We trust that a merciful and loving God wins in the end.

Trump has been Uber conservative. I personally had an abhorrence to the guy but I let his actions do the talking. There has not been a more conservative President since Lincoln. He personally does not see himself as conservative or liberal but nearly every thing he has done is conservative. From new trade deals to moving the consulate to Jerusalem something even Reagan didn’t do.

Again please show me where he told UKr that they were not getting the money until they investigated Biden. The UKr people stared clearly they had no idea that Trump had contemplated it because it wasn’t made known to them until after they had received it. Also, it was his chief responsibility to execute the laws, and they have Biden admitting to a very serious crime so what was Trump to do? Is Biden above the law? Does running for President absolve one from investigation and prosecution? Actually I think Democrat leaders believe this. Do you know that the Bidens left China with over a billion in investment? Joe Biden was leveraging his office just like Hillary to personally amass a fortune. And Trump considered withholding the aid which is totally his right and duty to do but never communicated that to UKr. So how did he get gain if they never knew he considered doing it and they got the money even before the expected date. They didn’t. And no investigation was launched.

I voted for Trump with a hope that a non-insider would be different. I pinched my nose and pulled the lever based solely on hope because it was evident that Hillary and any Democrat regardless of who would just continue the corruption and decline of this God established country. I have been so beyond surprised that nearly all his actions have been super conservative and there is no denying it. More so than even my favorite Ronald Reagan.

BTW you do know the endgame of all this. First impeach Trump then Pence. Trust me they would not stop at Trump. They have too much money and crimes at stake. Like Hillary said if he wins we will all hang.

I personally think that Trump is going to win in November. I also think that it would have been hilarious to have him removed from office just to be put back in in 10 months.

ABYUFAN wrote:

I personally think that Trump is going to win in November. I also think that it would have been hilarious to have him removed from office just to be put back in in 10 months.

I thought about that too and thought that would be so funny but then I heard that the House was going to do all they could to prevent him from being able to be the Republican candidate if they succeeded. Don't know if they could or not because that is a Republican thing that they have no say in that. However, I could see them trying to pass legislation to ban Impeached people from running but I'm not sure how that would line up the Constitution. I would imagine it would take an amendment to change it. Just like they did # of terms.

ABYUFAN wrote:

ABYUFAN wrote:

I've been a registered GOP guy for well over 30 years. Honestly I would have voted the same way that Romney did, and I would have been disappointed with myself if I had done otherwise.

I wouldn't have been able to stand before the judgement bar and said I held true to God and my conscious if I had voted any other way that Mitt. He's going to take a lot of flack for it, which increases the amount of respect I have for him for doing what he thinks was right.



But I'm not here to cast doubt on people who are able to successfully separate morality and following the Gospel from politics. Everyone goes into these aspects of their life differently.

I'm a big "reasonable minds can differ" guy. I have no problem with someone else not seeing enough there to remove the President.



That said, I have a lot of pride in the Republican party as the only party to have a senator willing to place his conscience over his party affiliation when it comes to a vote to remove the president. The Democrats have twice had the opportunity to have a senator vote to remove their President for clear violations of the law, and both times have chosen not to do so. The Republicans are the only party to have anyone vote to follow the law over following their party's line, and that is a very good thing.

It is a start!

BoiseBYU wrote:

Your ranting is unbecoming.

I stand with Imuakahuku. Dissension is not of the Lord. I don't see him ranting any more than you are. I am happy, among other things, that President Trump and his family are fighting human trafficking. That is very moral! Another thing: I heard a month or so that unemployment was at a 40 year low. While there may be many factors involved President Trump plays a major part in it.

nuk13 wrote:

imuakahuku wrote:

Your ranting is unbecoming.

I stand with Imuakahuku. Dissension is not of the Lord. I don't see him ranting any more than you are. I am happy, among other things, that President Trump and his family are fighting human trafficking. That is very moral! Another thing: I heard a month or so that unemployment was at a 40 year low. While there may be many factors involved President Trump plays a major part in it.

I think the Trump Administration has done many good things. That does not give him carte blanche to do what he pleases. Calling Senator Romney unrighteous, claiming that he betrayed the Constitution, betrayed all conservatives and that he betrayed all Republicans is in my book ranting. I am a registered republican and I don’t feel like he’s betrayed me. I have not called Imuakahuku or any Senator such things for voting to acquit. I’ve only defended a man of faith attempting to fulfill his constitutional duty as he understands it, letting the consequence follow.

Meh. It was a fake Spartacus moment.



To convict on impeachment, they needed 67 votes, so Mitt could stake the moral high ground without it having any impact at all on the outcome, which was never in doubt.